Forbidden - Song by Song

[Vyn]

I agree with the consensus. Guilty As Hell, to me, represents everything that is wrong with this entire album. It's not bad, it's simply not memorable or moving or much of anything, really.

The song suffers from the same misaligned production that the rest of the album suffers from. Attempting to hear beyond the producer's nonsense leaves me with a song that sounds half-assed. Evaluating Guilty As Hell on its own terms is tough for me because I am a fan of Black Sabbath. But it's not impossible, and in that context the song is still half-assed.

And just like all of the songs on Forbidden, if it just had a little more "something" it would be a solid piece of music.

My grandson is six years old. He was over for a visit the other day and knowing that this thread was in progress I took the opportunity to get his thoughts on the song. He was looking at the album cover as Guilty as Hell was playing, here's what he had to say:

Me: "Do you like this song?"

Him: <laughing> "No"

Me: "Why not?"

Him: "It don't sound like music."

So, take that for what it's worth

[Zzzptm]

Is Sick and Tired going to be more of the same? The opening leads one to such a conclusion, repetitive riff and then a big with the keyboards in the verses... are we trying to do a Whitesnake song here? Then why is Martin singing instead of David Coverdale?

OK, we get to the solo, will it save the song? I don't know, I think I've heard this one before. It's technically well-done, but lacks heart and emotion.

Back to a verse and I'm still not feeling anything new or fun and wait, what, it's over?

Yeah, the second half of Forbidden is pretty much going through the motions.

Meanwhile, DP was blowing my mind with Purpendicular...

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

I don't mind Sick and Tired, it's a bluesy song, sung well enough, I quite like the solo too. It's not a fantastic song but it's okay!

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

Next up we have Rusty Angel. This is an odd song, I quite like it... despite some problems. It doesn't feel like a Sabbath song, Martin's vocals are a bit off and the lyrics are poor... until you get to the slow section, there's a nice verse there and the subsequent solo is good but reminds me of another song's solo! This used to the best track on the album but a few others have grown on me over the years.

[Zzzptm]

I really enjoy Rusty Angels, one of the best Whitesnake songs Black Sabbath ever did. That, or it's reminiscent of Robertson-era Motorhead...

My biggest complaint with this song is the massive use of compression which often results in clipping, sometimes severe.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

The title track Forbidden comes next. One of the shorter title tracks in their history. This seems to me as a strange one to choose as the title track, it's not that it's a bad song, but it's not particularly distinctive either... little more than throw away filler really. As I said I don't dislike it, but it isn't particularly memorable... and what's he singing about?!

[Zzzptm]

Yep, it's filler. Don't know what else to say about Forbidden...

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

Finally we finish with Kiss of Death. I quite like this song, it's nearly a normal Sabbath song. Musically it's slow verse, fast section (repeat twice) is one repetition too many in my mind and it takes too loong to get to the faster vocal section. The musicianship is fine, and Martin's vocals are good too. It's probably the obvious album closer and I would have gone with this as the title song too.

[Zzzptm]

I would have loved for the end section to be the whole song. I think I said as much elsewhere here when I was talking about making a better track order/track list for Forbidden.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

I'm going to do my ranking of the songs, but it's really difficult, except for a couple of poor songs there's not much between these songs:

1= I Won't Cry For You
1= Kiss of Death

3= Rusty Angel
3- Sick & Tired

5= Get A Grip
5= Skanig Off the Chains
5= Guilty As Hell
5= Forbidden

9. Can't Get Close Enough
10. Illusion of Power


For the Martin era I'll rank the albums:

1. Cross Purposes
2. Tyr
3. Eternal Idol
4. Headless Cross
5. Forbidden

This excercise has identified in my mind that Forbidden really is quite a poor effort, poorer than I remembered. I'll redo my overall ranking shortly, nothing has changed at the top of the list but there's been some shuffling at the bottom.

[Zzzptm]

My Martin-era rankings go now:

1. Eternal Idol
2. Cross Purposes
3. Tyr
4. Forbidden
5. Headless Cross

Tyr really moved up from where I had it at last and Forbidden dropped in my view relative to Tyr.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

In the final analysis this is how I rank ALL the albums:


 1. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
 2. Sabotage
 3. Dehumanizer
 4. The Mob Rules
 5. Heaven & Hell
 6. Cross Purposes
 7. Never Say Die

 8. Paranoid
 9. Tyr
10. Black Sabbath
11. Eternal Idol
12. Vol. 4
13. The Devil You Know
14. 13
15. Master of Reality

16. Headless Cross
17. Seventh Star
18. Born Again
19. Technical Ecstacy
20. Forbidden


After this process, analysing each song on each album, I find that the albums I always loved I still do. The ones in the middle are still much as I remember. But some of the ones near the bottom I have a new appreciation of and others have dipped in my love.

MoR has moved up, TE has plummetted. Born Again is still a let down to me and if they ever get a chance to do a proper remix/re-master I'll be happy to re-assess it. Headless Cross and Seventh Star are better in my mind but still have their flaws and Forbidden is still rock bottom, and I'm not sure that whatever Tony does with the remaster it won't make a blind bit of difference with that!

EDIT: Ah Crap! I forgot to include The Devil You Know so I've added it in now!

[Zzzptm]

^ Could be why they're not moving quick on that remaster of it...

In my GOOD group:

The Mob Rules
Heaven and Hell
Sabotage
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Dehumanizer
Eternal Idol
Paranoid
Vol. 4

Play these discs any time you want, I'll be happy to listen to them.

In my OK group:

Master of Reality
Cross Purposes
Black Sabbath
Tyr
Seventh Star
13

If these albums are playing, OK, I won't complain. Not totally excited, but these are good stuff.

In my MEH group:

Never Say Die
The Devil You Know
Forbidden
Technical Ecstasy
Born Again
Headless Cross

These are albums that, while I don't really hate them, I don't really like them, either. They're disappointments.

[Zzzptm]

So what's next - Purpendicular?

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

So what's next - Purpendicular?

What's that then?!

(I'll see myself out!)