Wendy Dio, Sharon Osbourne, and Yoko Ono... Discuss...

[Zzzptm]

I just read a comment on an article that said Wendy Dio and Sharon Osbourne were cut from the same cloth, meaning it in a negative way. Sort of the way people talk about Yoko Ono, as well. It made me wonder why it is that we tend to think negatively of the women in the lives of rock stars, particularly when they exercise any sort of business sense or executive acumen.

So why is it we're so ready to hate or blame a band's breakup on the women near to it? Is there reality to that thinking, or is it merely an extension of the age-old sexist saw, "cherchez la femme"?

[Billy Underdog]

Oh, i'm so sick and tired of Yoko getting the blame for Beatles splitting up. Yeah, it was probably annoying for the others that Lennon wanted her beside him in the studio all the time, but the idea that she was trying to impose any ideas to their music is simply bullshit. She did contribute a bit to Revolution 9, originally Harrisons idea, but that's it. That ofcourse led to the Two Virgins album.
It was rather a matter of the guys having literally been living on top of each others since '58, was getting tired of each others and had grown apart.

As for Sharon, there's both good and bad. She did save Ozzys life in '79/'80 and made his solo career. And she've been kind to their hired guns in the 90's, even paying for Mike Inez' flight ticket to go audition for Alice In Chains, telling Rob Trujillo it would be better for him to go join Metallica and letting Zakk Wylde come and go more or less as he pleased. In the 80's on the other hand, what she did and is still doing to Daisley, Kerslake and Soussan is unforgivable. Pure greed. The two first albums that made Ozzy the star he is is largely due to Daisley and Kerslake, both for the way they play, the two of them jamming out the tunes with Rhoads and for Daisley writing the lyrics. And having Bordin and Trujillo re-record the classics is... I'm speechless. They've admitted to not liking doing it themselves too...

As for Wendy, don't know too much about her conduct, but cudos to her for sticking in a pro forma marriage with a guy who (atleast according to rumours) preferred playing on the other team, so it was basically more a business relationship than a marriage. But it seems she've been good for Dio. Don't know for some of his band members, though...

[Zzzptm]

Well, Gillan was a jerk to his solo band in the 80s, right before he bolted out the back door to join Sabbath. My guess is if he had a wife in the picture, she'd be blamed for what was, essentially, his bad management.

[Billy Underdog]

Most likely. Or his tonsils...

[Sabbabbath]

I think that mysoginist sterotypes often shape people's perception in fundamental ways. They usually don't create a picture totally disconnected from reality; rather, the affect the way that reality is interpreted. Thus, it does seem that Sharon Osbourne is a hard businesswoman who has thus affected several (probably many) people's lives in bad ways. If she were a man, most people would either not care or even give her (him, in that scenario) credit for that (except if they were themselves among those affected in bad ways). But as a woman, she should not do such things; instead, she should do things that are socially associated with being a woman - maybe wash her husband's clothes and dishes, raise their children, look pretty, be sexually available for him, faithful to him and whatnot. At the same time, her husband is free to fuck around (and come penitently back to her if it was too much or obvious) and do whatever he pleases to fulfill the male crazy rockstar image. And whenever he and other band members fail to speak in person to each other like grown-ups again, and thus don't manage to solve their disputes and misunderstandings, resulting in another live tour or album recording without the original drummer, who is responsable of course? His super-powerful wife of course!

[Billy Underdog]

^^^ Actually, i was supposed to say it's clear she've learned her business from her infamous father, but it slipped my mind...

[Charger]

Well no one can deny that Sharon has used some very questionable tactics over the years some that have been out right evil. She is also the epitome of money hunger. She is so greedy it's not even funny...and the things she's forced Ozzy to do just to get some more money...my goodness.

But on the other hand she is one savvy business person too. But the thing is she is willing to do pretty much what ever it takes for things to go her way (and by her way I mean to fill her pockets with shitload of the all mighty dollar.) in everything she gets her hands on. Also it is clear she doesn't play well with others...she is a complete control freak.


As for Wendy...well she is completely different. Business person too no doubt but she has never done anything that even comes close to Sharon. She has also always had a nice person reputation in the business. She has gotten a lot of grief with the Dio Disciples thing...some of which is totally without bases...it's not like she's trying to make tons of money on Ronnie's memory...as the truth is every single Dio Disciples tour has been totally non profit. They've pretty much calculated the ticket prices to be equal to the costs of touring...and all the merch profits go to Stand Up And Shout Cancer Fund so...


Don't know a thing about Yoko...

[Zzzptm]

^^^ Actually, i was supposed to say it's clear she've learned her business from her infamous father, but it slipped my mind...

Right. Don Arden is infamous, but nobody vilifies him as a bad-tempered shrew that can't keep to her place. Badfinger's manager was rotten to the core, but doesn't get near the sneers that Yoko or Sharon or Wendy get.

[Sabbabbath]

...and the things she's forced Ozzy to do just to get some more money...my goodness.

How exactly has she "forced" Ozzy to do anything? And how do you know? Many people keep claiming that Sharon "forces" Ozzy to do this or that (usually things that the people who are talking dislike). I have never heard any proof though. As long as there isn't any proof, there's no good reason to prefer the theory that Sharon forced Ozzy over the alternative theories that Ozzy forced Sharon or that both decided together.

[Charger]

How exactly has she "forced" Ozzy to do anything? And how do you know? Many people keep claiming that Sharon "forces" Ozzy to do this or that (usually things that the people who are talking dislike). I have never heard any proof though. As long as there isn't any proof, there's no good reason to prefer the theory that Sharon forced Ozzy over the alternative theories that Ozzy forced Sharon or that both decided together.

Oh come on...I think a certain tv show called The Osbournes is all the example anyone needs. There's a lot of other stuff too...certain tours with certain bands etc.

I don't think Ozzy has a lot of say in any of the business side of his career...but on the other hand I don't think he minds that either...Ozzy's never really been a leader he's always been a follower. Has Sharon taken advantage of that...ofcourse she has. But again does Ozzy really mind...well that's something only Ozzy himself could answer.

[Billy Underdog]

^^^ Actually, i was supposed to say it's clear she've learned her business from her infamous father, but it slipped my mind...

Right. Don Arden is infamous, but nobody vilifies him as a bad-tempered shrew that can't keep to her place. Badfinger's manager was rotten to the core, but doesn't get near the sneers that Yoko or Sharon or Wendy get.

Hanging people out of the window several floors above the ground to get their money sound pretty villifying to me... Or lying to the parrents of the  underaged Small Faces guys that they were heroin junkies, so he had to take care of their cash. But i get your point.

...and the things she's forced Ozzy to do just to get some more money...my goodness.

How exactly has she "forced" Ozzy to do anything? And how do you know? Many people keep claiming that Sharon "forces" Ozzy to do this or that (usually things that the people who are talking dislike). I have never heard any proof though. As long as there isn't any proof, there's no good reason to prefer the theory that Sharon forced Ozzy over the alternative theories that Ozzy forced Sharon or that both decided together.

There were times in the early 80's where Oz didn't wanna go onstage due to his anxiety, but she forced him. He even shaved his head to avoid it, but she made him wear a wig instead...

[Zzzptm]

Re. Sharon telling Ozzy to get out there, even with a wig: That's called being a good road manager. You get the talent on stage and get them to put on a show, no matter how out of their mind they may be, pick up the pieces after the encore. If cancer funding had a dollar for every time a manager did something terrible to get a musician to perform, we'd have a cure by now. These are guys that will offer up drugs to change moods, lie, shout, berate, manipulate, do all kinds of rotten stuff to get the band up there so the promoter doesn't withhold paying out.

[Charger]

No matter how harsh I maybe towards Sharon (which I do find justified) there is absolutely no denying that Ozzy's career wouldn't be what it is now without her.

She made him a lasting star there is no doubt about it. But some of the things she did to achieve that were out right vile.

[Sabbabbath]

How exactly has she "forced" Ozzy to do anything? And how do you know? Many people keep claiming that Sharon "forces" Ozzy to do this or that (usually things that the people who are talking dislike). I have never heard any proof though. As long as there isn't any proof, there's no good reason to prefer the theory that Sharon forced Ozzy over the alternative theories that Ozzy forced Sharon or that both decided together.

Oh come on...I think a certain tv show called The Osbournes is all the example anyone needs. There's a lot of other stuff too...certain tours with certain bands etc.

I don't think Ozzy has a lot of say in any of the business side of his career...but on the other hand I don't think he minds that either...Ozzy's never really been a leader he's always been a follower. Has Sharon taken advantage of that...ofcourse she has. But again does Ozzy really mind...well that's something only Ozzy himself could answer.

The fact that "The Osbournes" did happen proves nothing in itself, except that somehow Sharon and Ozzy came to do it. It may well have been Sharon's idea to do "The Osbournes", but what evidence is there to prove that she "forced" him? She might as well suggested it and he followed her suggestion. Quite likely so, because from a carreer perspective it was a great idea. The notion that she "forced" him logically presupposes that he didn't wanna do it. Is that the case? I don't say that's impossible, it's just that I would like to see some evidence.

Sharon has been paying a huge price to be with Ozzy, including the situation where he tried to kill her, and all his fucking around and her being humiliated in public about it. Has she taken advantage of him? I guess yes. Has he taken advantage of her? Definitely yes. (EDIT: Ah, I see you pointed in that direction too in your latest comment.)

[Charger]

I can imagine very well that the conversation about The Osbournes went something like this:

Sharon:
Hey Ozzy, we're gonna do this tv show for MTV

Ozzy:
Huh?...What?

Sharon:
Tv Show for Music Television

Ozzy:
Huh....?

Sharon:
Yeah.

Ozzy:
Okay?