Interesting proposal...

[Zzzptm]

Several states in the US are considering laws that would define narcotics-related homicides. Basically, prescribe or provide drugs that someone overdoses on, you can face what amounts to a murder or manslaughter charge.

Such laws make me wonder who would be subject to them. A pharma company rep that markets an opiod too heavily? A doctor who prescribed a batch of pills, but the patient took too many at once, contrary to dosing instructions? Sure, a street dealer or person who sells meds under the table, those are targets. But who else would be brought in?

And is this what is needed, or would there be a better way to deal with overdoses in general?

[Charger]

This kind of a bill is bit scary indeed...

If there would be a president set where a doctor would be prosecuted for simply prescibing medication to a patient in need who then either accidentally (or on purpose) overdoses on them and then be found liable...

The problem that could come from this is that doctors would be too scared to prescribe pain medication anymore to people who really need them...

IF this could just be pointed to drug dealers then the law would be good...

[Typhon]

There are doctors and pharmaceutical companies out there who ARE drug dealers, and should be treated as such.

[Zzzptm]

There are doctors and pharmaceutical companies out there who ARE drug dealers, and should be treated as such.

I agree here. And there are more than a few companies that should be shuttered because of their excesses.

But the murder/manslaughter stuff - it's similar to laws that hold bars liable for patrons that leave inebriated and then drive under the influence. But those bars don't have criminal liability that extends to the level of this proposed legislation.

At the same time, there are individuals who, through their actions, are very much accessories to murder in my view. Dealers, prescription-happy doctors, individuals handing out personal meds, and so forth. If there is a murder rap attached to those activities, I would think it would deter a chunk of those people from getting into those kinds of activities.

[Typhon]

There are doctors and pharmaceutical companies out there who ARE drug dealers, and should be treated as such.

I agree here. And there are more than a few companies that should be shuttered because of their excesses.

But the murder/manslaughter stuff - it's similar to laws that hold bars liable for patrons that leave inebriated and then drive under the influence. But those bars don't have criminal liability that extends to the level of this proposed legislation.

At the same time, there are individuals who, through their actions, are very much accessories to murder in my view. Dealers, prescription-happy doctors, individuals handing out personal meds, and so forth. If there is a murder rap attached to those activities, I would think it would deter a chunk of those people from getting into those kinds of activities.

Keep in mind, there are many levels of murder charges.  "Depraved indifference" is a murder charge that seems appropriate in many cases here.  This is where one's actions lead to a death, but it was not your intention to kill.

[Zzzptm]

Keep in mind, there are many levels of murder charges.  "Depraved indifference" is a murder charge that seems appropriate in many cases here.  This is where one's actions lead to a death, but it was not your intention to kill.

Agree, and taking intent out of the picture makes it much easier to get the charge proven. Did you sell or provide the drugs? If yes, and there was an overdose, the case of the state is proven.

[Charger]

There are doctors and pharmaceutical companies out there who ARE drug dealers, and should be treated as such.

Well that is true as well ofcourse...but that's is luckily a very small minority

[Typhon]

Keep in mind, there are many levels of murder charges.  "Depraved indifference" is a murder charge that seems appropriate in many cases here.  This is where one's actions lead to a death, but it was not your intention to kill.

Agree, and taking intent out of the picture makes it much easier to get the charge proven. Did you sell or provide the drugs? If yes, and there was an overdose, the case of the state is proven.

Not that simple.  If the person selling or prescribing the drugs is not providing unusually high doses or amounts, then this would not prove depraved indifference to human life.

[Typhon]

There are doctors and pharmaceutical companies out there who ARE drug dealers, and should be treated as such.

Well that is true as well ofcourse...but that's is luckily a very small minority

Might be a lot more than you think, unfortunately.

[Zzzptm]

Keep in mind, there are many levels of murder charges.  "Depraved indifference" is a murder charge that seems appropriate in many cases here.  This is where one's actions lead to a death, but it was not your intention to kill.

Agree, and taking intent out of the picture makes it much easier to get the charge proven. Did you sell or provide the drugs? If yes, and there was an overdose, the case of the state is proven.

Not that simple.  If the person selling or prescribing the drugs is not providing unusually high doses or amounts, then this would not prove depraved indifference to human life.

True, and that's where the courtroom dramas emerge. That's also where the unintended consequences can emerge, where pharmacies may simply refuse to fill certain prescriptions simply because of the potential for litigation.

[Charger]

There are doctors and pharmaceutical companies out there who ARE drug dealers, and should be treated as such.

Well that is true as well ofcourse...but that's is luckily a very small minority

Might be a lot more than you think, unfortunately.

Well I sure hope not... But I do guess it can be easy for doctors to lose their way as well seeing what kind of prices some opioids can go for in the street. But hasn't it been made more difficult (if not even impossible) for doctors to write prescriptions to themselves or even their family members? But ofcourse if you really want to I suppose you can always hire a person who you write prescriptions to and then just have him bring you the drugs that you can then sell onwards...

[Typhon]

Here's how bad it actually is, gentlemen.

[Zzzptm]

^ Excellent, EXCELLENT link, Typhon.

Pablo Escobar? No problemo!

El Chapo? We got this!

McKesson?

*ahem* McKesson?

Hello? Anyone? Bueller?

[Vyn]

If implemented, there will probably be successful criminal prosecutions using it as a basis. But, that already happens using a plethora of other laws as bases.

So, one more law meant to be a deterrent.

The issue is clear, the solution is simple. The execution of that solution is impossibly complex. So, we have to try "something", right? We have to have an outlet for our individual frustrations at the situation so we push our legislators to create laws that will assuage, to some extent, our collective troubled consciousness.

How many lives will these new laws save? How many families will it keep from being broken? How many children will be spared the horror of watching their parents destroy themselves in a dope-haze? How many communities will be invigorated by people who otherwise would have asphyxiated on their own vomit?

As far as clamping down on big pharma, I don't see that happening anytime soon. At least, not as long as we have a society that encourages the love of money over the love of people.

[Typhon]

If implemented, there will probably be successful criminal prosecutions using it as a basis. But, that already happens using a plethora of other laws as bases.

So, one more law meant to be a deterrent.

The issue is clear, the solution is simple. The execution of that solution is impossibly complex. So, we have to try "something", right? We have to have an outlet for our individual frustrations at the situation so we push our legislators to create laws that will assuage, to some extent, our collective troubled consciousness.

How many lives will these new laws save? How many families will it keep from being broken? How many children will be spared the horror of watching their parents destroy themselves in a dope-haze? How many communities will be invigorated by people who otherwise would have asphyxiated on their own vomit?

As far as clamping down on big pharma, I don't see that happening anytime soon. At least, not as long as we have a society that encourages the love of money over the love of people.

How, exactly, is society encouraging the love of money?  You need not answer that, because I don't really care what the answer is.  It is still up to individuals to make their own choices, and if their choices break the law, then they must suffer the consequences.