Did They Take It Too Far?

[Zzzptm]

So, I was watching this...

... and then, when they started without Blackmore on the stage, I was all WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?


But the answer was pretty clear after Blackmore showed up and started throwing water on everyone... this was a band that, but for contractual arrangements, was broken up. The question I have is, should they have done it sooner? Like maybe only doing one reunion album and then calling it a day before they started killing each other? Or maybe *not* doing a full reunion after the JLT album, what with Blackmore and Gillan being at such odds with each other?

Or was the Mk2 reunion fraught with tension from the start?

[Billy Underdog]

Was never that into the MkII reunions, so in many ways, yes.
But long after CD's had arrived i still picked up cassettes, because they were cheap. And ended up with The Battle Rages On. Which i still like listening to once in a blue moon, and we/i wouldn't have had that if they called it quits after Perfect Strangers. But there was some strange things going on at that time, esp. when they brought Turner into the fold...

[Zzzptm]

Was never that into the MkII reunions, so in many ways, yes.
But long after CD's had arrived i still picked up cassettes, because they were cheap. And ended up with The Battle Rages On. Which i still like listening to once in a blue moon, and we/i wouldn't have had that if they called it quits after Perfect Strangers. But there was some strange things going on at that time, esp. when they brought Turner into the fold...

Myself, I really can't get into TBRO... the MP3s just collect dust on my hard drive. I think I liked "Anya", but found that I can live just fine without it. I usually go for the much more cheerful Purpendicular and Abandon when I want 90s DP tunes.

[Billy Underdog]

Anya is def. one of the best on the album. And the title tune. Talk About Love... Will have to revisit it...

[Zzzptm]

Anya is def. one of the best on the album. And the title tune. Talk About Love... Will have to revisit it...

But the tour that followed... that live album, Come Hell or High Water... ouch... The bootleg of Satriani playing with them in Japan is SOOOOO much better in terms of the band's vibe and having fun.

[Billy Underdog]

But the tour that followed... that live album, Come Hell or High Water... ouch... The bootleg of Satriani playing with them in Japan is SOOOOO much better in terms of the band's vibe and having fun.

So i've heard from DP fanatics.

[Charger]

Anya is def. one of the best on the album. And the title tune. Talk About Love... Will have to revisit it...

But the tour that followed... that live album, Come Hell or High Water... ouch... The bootleg of Satriani playing with them in Japan is SOOOOO much better in terms of the band's vibe and having fun.

Anya is brilliant, like the title track and Twist In The Tail too...

But yeah the live preformances weren't very good at all...Ritchie would have rather been counting cesspools in a medieval town that played with the band...he had no interest and no spark left in him anymore at that point.

Satriani wasn't a perfect fit for Purple but he did a good job especially considering the time frame he had to jump in.

[Zzzptm]

Anya is brilliant, like the title track and Twist In The Tail too...

But yeah the live preformances weren't very good at all...Ritchie would have rather been counting cesspools in a medieval town that played with the band...he had no interest and no spark left in him anymore at that point.

Satriani wasn't a perfect fit for Purple but he did a good job especially considering the time frame he had to jump in.

... which brings us to Mr. Morse. But that is for another section of the forum.

[Billy Underdog]

Having had a quick check of the tunes on TBRO again, and it's basically the three i mentioned above that still sits well with me now. Amazing how nostalgia can fool your taste in music...

[Zzzptm]

Having had a quick check of the tunes on TBRO again, and it's basically the three i mentioned above that still sits well with me now. Amazing how nostalgia can fool your taste in music...

Nostalgia can get me sometimes when I reach for an album I used to dislike, but forgot the reasons for disliking... it's always a nasty bump when I rediscover why I hated it.

[jjbomber]

I was at the gig in Birmingham, which remains the worst gig I have ever been to. Basically they played as a 4 piece band. If Gillan was on stage, Blackmore walked off, while if Blackmore was playing Gillan walked off. On three separate occasions Blackmore's amps were switched off. He was left strumming on stage with no sound at all. He ended up playing most of the set sitting on a chair behind the amps. We had a restricted view ticket at the side of the stage, so at least we saw him. He returned to the stage front to play Smoke On The Water, but his guitar amps were switched off yet again. He just shrugged his shoulders, walked off and never came back.

[Sabbabbath]

I was at the gig in Birmingham, which remains the worst gig I have ever been to. Basically they played as a 4 piece band. If Gillan was on stage, Blackmore walked off, while if Blackmore was playing Gillan walked off. On three separate occasions Blackmore's amps were switched off. He was left strumming on stage with no sound at all. He ended up playing most of the set sitting on a chair behind the amps. We had a restricted view ticket at the side of the stage, so at least we saw him. He returned to the stage front to play Smoke On The Water, but his guitar amps were switched off yet again. He just shrugged his shoulders, walked off and never came back.

Nice to meet you here, Bomber.   

As a Sabbath fan and someone who likes some of DP's music as well, it has always been interesting for me to see how different the conflict culture works in DP vs BS.

I mean, the principles of Sabbath's conflict culture basically seem to be:
- Never openly express your needs or concerns towards your fellow band members, no matter what. Leave all the important parts of communication to management or to the media, especially if you're having any trouble with your fellow band members.
- Whenever it is impossible to just go on, just fire somebody (if you're Tony Iommi) or leave (if you're anyone else).
- If you're Tony Iommi, and firing the other guy is is not so easy, e.g. because you are on tour, bring a replacement musician in and rehearse with him behind the other guy's back until he's ready. Then fire the guy you wanted to fire.
- After that, invent some story for the media.

With Deep Purple, I am less sure how their conflict culture works, especially the behind the scenes parts, but here's a try, and hopefully you DP fans can correct and elaborate:
- If you are Ritchie Blackmore or Ian Gillan, just fight each other any time and any place, and make a big show about it, until someone gets seriously hurt or the management or company start panicking. When that happens, either walk out as publically as possible and with as big a scene as possible, or somehow make the other guy walk out.
- If you are some other band member, just keep playing.

[jjbomber]

Many thanks for the welcome.

Conflict:

Black Sabbath: Do what $haron says or you're out. Whether it's a 4% unsignable contract for Bill, handing over the Black Sabbath name for Tony, or handing over writing credits on '13' for Geezer, it amounts to the same thing.

Deep Purple: Do what Gillian's ego says or you're out. That seems to have been the rule for the last 25 years. It has kept the peace.

I enjoyed the Rainbow concerts with Ronnie Romero and would far rather listen to ''Blackmore's Purple'' than Deep Purple these days. I'm hoping for some new material from them.

[Zzzptm]

When Blackmore wanted a lineup change, he started work on it behind the scenes before the guys getting cut knew anything about it. Evans and Simper were made redundant one day and Gillan/Glover were on stage the next. As Blackmore contemplated leaving DP Mk3, he was rehearsing with Elf while on tour with DP. He even had ideas on who should replace him.

When Gillan wanted a lineup change, he just walked out on his own. Did that with DP, his own band, and Black Sabbath.

The first Mk2 Reunion breakup was Blackmore's planning, and he had Joe Lynn Turner waiting in the wings to pick up the work. The second Mk2 Reunion breakup was more a push from Gillan and that's why Blackmore wound up storming off, because he couldn't successfully push back.

As for Blackmore touring with Romero...



I've been unimpressed with their work, even though I agree that Romero's got a great talent. It just seems like the band's vibe isn't coming together.

[Sabbabbath]

Many thanks for the welcome.

Conflict:

Black Sabbath: Do what $haron says or you're out. Whether it's a 4% unsignable contract for Bill, handing over the Black Sabbath name for Tony, or handing over writing credits on '13' for Geezer, it amounts to the same thing.

Deep Purple: Do what Gillian's ego says or you're out. That seems to have been the rule for the last 25 years. It has kept the peace.

I enjoyed the Rainbow concerts with Ronnie Romero and would far rather listen to ''Blackmore's Purple'' than Deep Purple these days. I'm hoping for some new material from them.

I don't know about Purple, but I think you overestimate Sharon Osbourne's power. She is Ozzy's manager, not Sabbath's. There is no way she could simply dictate everything to the band. E.g. even if the contract that was offered to Bill was her idea, Ozzy and the other bandmembers or their managements would have to have approved of it. So if Sharon is to be held responsible, the others are too. Apart from that, the "unsignable contract" story is Bill's story. The other band members have told different stories. Given Bill's record of health problems (including the most recent ones), it is obvious "health problems" version does have some merit:
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ozzy-osbourne-refuses-to-apologize-to-bill-ward-physically-you-knew-you-were-fked/

To be sure, this does not mean that Bill is simply lying and the others are simply speaking the truth. I guess the truth is somewhere in between. Anyway, I do believe that the "Sharon is responsible for all shit that happens with Sabbath" thing is a myth. See the nice conversation going in here:
https://www.komunumo.net/forumo/black-sabbath-general/wendy-dio-sharon-osbourne-and-yoko-ono-discuss/

And I think we should take the guys who are Black Sabbath more seriously. They are grown-up people, they take decisions, and they can be held responsible for them. Quite obviously, the four original members, who keep claiming they are the best friends in the world etc., have rarely openly addressed their concerns and needs face-to-face. Reportedly Bill and the others have not even talked since the failed reunion. WTF? How can such issues be expected to be solved without, well, talking to each other (as opposed to talking ABOUT each other on the media)? Honestly, those guys should really work on their communicational habits and skills.