Stupidity 1, Common Sense 0

[Typhon]

Are people in Sweden completely void of common sense?  Stories like this really piss me off.

     Swedish Muslim woman in Uppsala won a lawsuit after refusing to shake her interviewer’s hand for religious reasons.
A court awarded Fareh Alhajeh, 24, $4,350 Wednesday after she was rejected from a position as an interpreter for refusing to shake a male executive’s hand, the Daily Mail reported. The Swedish labor court ruled the interpreting company discriminated against her because the European Convention on Human Rights protects the right to refuse to shake hands based on religious reasons, according to the BBC.

The company said that it treats genders equally, and both men and women are expected to shake hands. However, the court ruled the practice was discriminatory against Muslims.

“I believe in God, which is very rare in Sweden … and I should be able to do that and be accepted as long as I’m not hurting anyone,” Alhajeh told the BBC.  Alhajeh preferred to place her hand over her heart instead of shaking hands with the male executive.

“In my country … you cannot treat women and men differently. I respect that. That’s why I don’t have any physical contact with men or with women. I can live by the rules of my religion and also at the same time follow the rules of the country that I live in,” she added.


If part of a job requirement is shaking hands, and you can't or won't, then you cannot do the job.  Nothing worse than reinforcing someone's superstitious nonsense like awarding them money.  PUT A GLOVE ON! 

[Billy Underdog]

Are people in Sweden completely void of common sense?

Yes, they are. Heard about the Swede who's on social welfare because he's "addicted" to going to Metal gigs? Fact.

That said, instead of overly trying to be culturally sensitive (which on ofcourse should be), one should rather help this poor person understand the difference between sectarian misunderstood traditions and true religiousness...

[Charger]

Couldn't agree with you more on this one...

I've always said that if someone moves into another country, that person needs to learn and respect the customs and habits of the country they are moving into NOT the other way around...YOU are the guest in a country ACT like it. It's common sense really, but ofcourse when it comes to "discrimination" common sense flies right out the door.

And the funny (not really ha ha funny more like sad funny) thing is these muslim countries NEVER EVER give any leeway for westeners, in fact there is an european woman in prison right now in Dubai because she had a glass of wine on the plane ride over there!!! THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND...

And then they come to our civilized world and think we should revert back to stone age just to accommodate them....RIDICULOUS!

This is beyond stupid and it's in fact quite infuriating to be honest. It's gotten really bad in sweden and it's getting that way here too bit by bit...

Wow....well I've been angry and sad and everything in between all day so this turned into a bit of a rant...

Also tomorrow is the first anniversary of the first ever terrorist attack in Finland so there is that too...

[Tyr66]

"I believe in God, which is very rare in Sweden"
Not at all , sick woman. you believe in Allah, who is supposed to be your so vindictive, violent, and very ambiguous God in terms of interpretation. This God so apt to cut off hands and heads, to stone your adulterous peers. Clearly the Middle Ages. Fuck your obscurantist religion, bitch. this shit is a cancer, a poison for Humanity. Go to Hell, you and your intolerance. Enough is enough .
These people are harmful and menacing for our future.I vomited their stinking Faith. How many kinds of behaviors will it take? how many attacks, deaths before finally say: Those Islamists  are a danger for our Western civilization?
We are far from being faultless, but these sick people have no advice to give us.
... and fuck this provoking Aquarius boat. I predict a destiny à la Rainbow Warrior before long.

if my post breaks the rules, delete it.
P & L.

[Billy Underdog]

Ok, this took a bad turn quickly... Yes, ofcourse one should adapt to the country one move to, and it's customs, but isn't it possible to both adapt and keep one owns traditions? Cultural exhange: moving the world forward for 70.000 years!

What you guys are talking about is the sectarian misunderstood traditions, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with actual Islam. Allah is the Arabic word for "God" which is the same god as the Christian and Jewish (well, the same as any devinity in any religion, really), and it IS a god of love. P & L

[Vyn]

if my post breaks the rules, delete it.
P & L.

Nah, I'm cool with it. No one should have to accommodate a stone-aged tribal culture that hides behind the veneer of religion. 

What if my religion forbade me from actually doing any work? Then I apply for a job, tell them I can't actually work, so they don't hire me...can I sue their asses for money for religious discrimination? Would that show how open and caring were are as a society if that were allowed to happen?

What if that woman were applying for a job at a dildo factory, but couldn't do any work because her religion forbids her to handle things that look like a dick?

The whole world going crazy.

[Charger]

Allah is the Arabic word for "God" which is the same god as the Christian and Jewish (well, the same as any devinity in any religion, really), and it IS a god of love. P & L

Actually I cannot agree with this not in any way...not a single monotheism god is one of peace or love...it is one of hate and war and death. That's the way it's always been... It's the way the single god concept was created. People needed to fear it so the flocks would blindly follow the ones in charge.

Atleast Polytheism religions were totally honest and had gods for all purposes...they ACTUALLY had gods for love and peace too...



And Tyr I understand fully where you are coming from with your opinions. The ammount of terrorism in your country has been awful. We've only had that one minor attack and I'm pretty darn pissed off too already.


But back on topic.

Freedom of religion is one thing and I'm all for it, but using religion for your own financial gain like this woman did is disgusting. Laws need to get caught up so that things like these wouldn't happen again but the direction things are going everywhere is quite the opposite.

[Freeyyaa]

May be the woman thinks she is better than svenskarna?

[Billy Underdog]

(well, the same as any divinity in any religion) because it all stems from the same divine source. Love is god, and not the word of man, like, say... The Bible... There's two faces of religion; each persons own experience of it, which is the legit one, and the organized one, which in the stone age was necessary as a way to rule civilization (like todays governments), but stifles the actual connection to anything divine. Who was an early perpetrator for this way of thinking? Well, Jesus was one, it's just very, very too bad his followers put his thoughts and ideas back into the system he was trying to break down.

I too very much get where you're coming from Tyr, but i can't stress enough that it's to do with culture, not religion. The vast majority of people who call themselves religious don't know the true origins of their own religious path, let alone the common origin of it all. They're simply spiritually disconnected due to following the words of men and long outdated, misunderstood traditions.

If anyone didn't notice, i strongly disagree with how this woman misrepresent her "religion" (tradition). The divine says nothing about not touching your fellow human, quite the contrary...

[Billy Underdog]

May be the woman thinks she is better than svenskarna?

She most likely is. Everyone non-Swedish are...

[Charger]

May be the woman thinks she is better than svenskarna?

She most likely is. Everyone non-Swedish are...

Ooooh...BURN!

And Freeeyyaa good to see you again!

[Typhon]

   Although the thread took somewhat of a religious turn, which I am fine with, I wanted to make it clear where I was coming from.  I was not talking religion, I was talking business (as Vyn did). 

There is a job opening.  Here are the things a person must do in order to do the job.  If you can't do any 1 of them, then you do not get the job.  Your reason does not matter.  If she was handicapped, and could not extend her right arm, then you can not do this job.  Period.

And the funny (not really ha ha funny more like sad funny) thing is these muslim countries NEVER EVER give any leeway for westerners,

Once again I have to commend Charger for pointing out one of the most important facts in a discussion.   

[Zzzptm]

I go with the medical issues position. I know people that can't shake hands for reasons going from having a cold on up to nerve sensitivity in the hands.

The job is "interpreter". Hand-shaking is not necessary for doing the job of converting one language into another. If a person with the linguistic facility but a hand issue applied for this job, I presume the executive would reject that person, as well, and then the suit would be over disability rights.

It's possible they were going to reject her for other reasons, but chose to go with "hand-shaking" as the least of all the possible litigation scenarios. If this is the case, they paid the fine and moved on.

As for other nations not having the same standards as Sweden or other Western Democracies, it's because they're not the West. Would I want to live there? No, precisely because they lack the standards that this woman is accused of exploiting. I *want* those standards, and I certainly don't want a bunch of nationalistic yahoos rolling them back to put us on the same level as places without  them.

And how hard is it to *not* shake a hand? If this woman hit on all the other requirements to be hired, why is "shake hands" a dealbreaker? Is this guy such an idiot that he can't think of a way around that to hire and retain this talent and not wind up paying a fine?

[Freeyyaa]

May be the woman thinks she is better than svenskarna?

She most likely is. Everyone non-Swedish are...

And what about you?

[Typhon]

And how hard is it to *not* shake a hand? If this woman hit on all the other requirements to be hired, why is "shake hands" a dealbreaker? Is this guy such an idiot that he can't think of a way around that to hire and retain this talent and not wind up paying a fine?

Think about it.  You finish a meeting with high level executives, people are shaking hands, someone extends their hand out to her and she shuns it off some how.  It isn't going to give a very good impression.

You want to live in the west, then adapt to western traditions of etiquette.  And like I already said, she can put a glove on!