Crowley, Parsons, and Hubbard

[Zzzptm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Occult_involvement_in_Pasadena

There's more to the story to be found, but that's a good start. Although it's non-fiction, it reads like a real potboiler, and Crowley has all the best lines.

[Thelemech]

Hubbard was both a fool and a genius. I read something years ago about how Hubbard would read The Book Of The Law by Crowley before he would do any public speaking.

I also read that Hubbard and 3 other Science Fiction authors had a bet to see who could create another Religion - and Hubbard attempt was successful with Scientology.

[Billy Underdog]

and Hubbard attempt was successful with Scientology.

Ehhhmmm... In the eyes of the beholder... I think Timothy Leary was alot closer to "the truth" when ripping off Crowley. Atleast he've actually had a (good?) (voluntary) impact on the human experience the last 50-60 years. Can't say that about eL-Ron...

[Zzzptm]

To be sure, inventing a religion

and Hubbard attempt was successful with Scientology.

Ehhhmmm... In the eyes of the beholder... I think Timothy Leary was alot closer to "the truth" when ripping off Crowley. Atleast he've actually had a (good?) (voluntary) impact on the human experience the last 50-60 years. Can't say that about eL-Ron...

To be sure, inventing a religion is not something that will have a good impact on the human experience when it's done as a move to cover one's massive bills. With his Dianetics thing falling apart, Hubbard had to move quick to put the pieces back together in a sustainable form.

There are several versions of Hubbards "invent a religion" story, I go with the ones from people actually in those conversations. I don't think Hubbard set out to make Dianetics into a religion, it just presented itself to him as an opportunity and he ran with it. Once he had it going, it wasn't something he could turn off and it ran him as much as he ran it.

[Zzzptm]

And just after I posted that, David Bowie sang "From Kether to Malkuth..."

Sometimes, things combine fortuitously like that.

And then I was reading the Wikipedia article on Thelema and came across this:

The chief task for one who has achieved this goes by the name of "crossing the abyss"; completely relinquishing the ego. If the aspirant is unprepared, he will cling to the ego instead, becoming a Black Brother. Rather than becoming one with God, the Black Brother considers his ego to be god. According to Crowley, the Black Brother slowly disintegrates, while preying on others for his own self-aggrandisement.

Damn if that "Black Brother" description doesn't fit L. Ron Hubbard and what we know about him.

[Billy Underdog]

To be sure, inventing a religion

and Hubbard attempt was successful with Scientology.

Ehhhmmm... In the eyes of the beholder... I think Timothy Leary was alot closer to "the truth" when ripping off Crowley. Atleast he've actually had a (good?) (voluntary) impact on the human experience the last 50-60 years. Can't say that about eL-Ron...

To be sure, inventing a religion is not something that will have a good impact on the human experience when it's done as a move to cover one's massive bills.

You know we couldn't agree more there, we've got a church with a 2000 yr old history of that (over here). But don't you find it curious that every "new" religious agenda is stemming from your wonderful nation, be it the "charesmatic" christianity, mormons or scientologists?
It's not that i get all  over new ideas, but the devil is in the details. It's all about how it's presented. And "you guys" have been inalienable at that point the last centuries.

[Zzzptm]

Well, your summary leaves out the Brahmo Samaj / Adi Dharm religious reform in India. Not much impact outside of India, but still a major religious movement - and one not founded to line the pockets of its founders. I would say that the Mormons, Adventists, Christian Scientists, and Jehovah's Witnesses movements, along with the general lines of the American-led Restorationist movements were not done with an eye towards the financial prospects of such endeavors. On the other hand, I feel that the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" movement serves as a justification for the grasping, just as Hubbard's Scientology was his vehicle for self-aggrandizement.

[Billy Underdog]

I would say that the Mormons, Adventists, Christian Scientists, and Jehovah's Witnesses movements, along with the general lines of the American-led Restorationist movements were not done with an eye towards the financial prospects of such endeavors.

Well, i agree to a point. The idea might've been good, and i'm actually having that battle with a relation on the matter at the moment, he's been lured into the "witnesses" via a loved one, now battling for his kids not having to grow up in that brainwash environment. I don't take two cents to stand up to him to say "it was a good idea".

How it's executed is a totally different matter, though. It all become the typical judgemental enclosed society that christianity was supposed to be an opponent of. That's when i say my "bye-bye"s and leave them behind. Judging them how they must be judged, but never let 'em judge me...

A couple of weeks ago i talked two Mormons into bordom, they basically just went "this guy knows more about this stuff than us anyways, so let's just...". Got a free "book of Mormons" out of it, if nothing else.
Have pulled that one with a couple of Witnesses calling on my door too. That's a great feeling, seeing a missionary leave crestfallen, shaking their head because they don't got the knowledge...

[Thelemech]

And just after I posted that, David Bowie sang "From Kether to Malkuth..."

Sometimes, things combine fortuitously like that.

And then I was reading the Wikipedia article on Thelema and came across this:

The chief task for one who has achieved this goes by the name of "crossing the abyss"; completely relinquishing the ego. If the aspirant is unprepared, he will cling to the ego instead, becoming a Black Brother. Rather than becoming one with God, the Black Brother considers his ego to be god. According to Crowley, the Black Brother slowly disintegrates, while preying on others for his own self-aggrandisement.

Damn if that "Black Brother" description doesn't fit L. Ron Hubbard and what we know about him.

I have been a Thelemite since High School - I also was briefly involved with The O.T.O. a Freemason based orginization that follows Crowley's teachings.
As a Thelemite I have frequently kept quiet about my beliefs especially around Christians. If I was honest with myself I never would have accepted any of the Doc's gifts with him being an Evangelical Christian.
I should state that I do not have animosity to Christians as I basically see them as meaning well but blind. Myself I think that Jesus was a great man maybe one of the greatest to have lived.

[Zzzptm]

So, that article got me down a rabbit hole and I started reading more about Crowley, Hermeticism, and associated other topics.

First off, I did not know beforehand how important Crowley was to the ability of the Neo-Pagan and Wiccan movements to flourish. Second, his influence on the counterculture movement of the sixties was also very important. The man's thoughts really impacted more people than just those in the Thelemic practices.

But back to the original post, Crowley didn't really tell lies to get at what he wanted to accomplish. He pretty much spelled things out for his associates and they either joined in or withdrew. He may have had a charisma that influenced those decisions, but that's just what he brought with him. He didn't have to invent a backstory or other stuff to advance his agenda.

Hubbard, on the other hand, moved from invention to invention, employing stories as needed to win people over and get them to do what he wanted. To the general public, he said that Dianetics cured him of his war injuries. But, at the same time, he was imploring with the VA to not cut off his benefits because he was still crippled from the war.

Crowley may have been styled as "the wickedest man in the world" by a sensationalist press, but he was pretty much a person that lived and let live. He got down to some stuff that can still shock even modern sensibilities, but he strikes me as someone that was always true to his own self. Hubbard's biography, sadly, strikes me as one of a man that let his lies overwhelm him.

[Thelemech]

***but he strikes me as someone that was always true to his own self


He spent his entire life trying to find his true "Will". I think that around the end of his life he actually did find it.