Never Say Die! - Was It Doomed From the Start?

[Zzzptm]

While most of us here like NSD better than TE or 13, we also don't like it as much as the Classic Six. If it's part of a Great Eight, it's number 7 or 8 on that list, down with TE. Easily, the first 6 BS albums are in a much higher class of product than NSD.

Given how Ozzy was in and out and in again with Black Sabbath at this time and how people were wondering about the relevance of hard rock in the post-punk era and cocaine and Ozzy refusing to sing certain lyrics and probably more factors than I can recall now, it's maybe a wonder that *any* album was released from this band.

Or were those factors just normal parts of recording a Black Sabbath album? Could the band have simply persevered with this material, had they so chosen to keep a stiff upper lip and carry on with things?

[Typhon]

Now this is the album that tends to separate me from other fans of the Great 8.  IMO NSD is on par with the 1st 6.  I remember back in the day, after feeling TE had slipped slightly their excellent run, and was wondering what NSD would feel like.  Then on my initial listen I knew the excellence had returned.  A little difference in tone, true.  But, none the less, still awesome.  The hard rock was back again!  My faves:
 
Over To You
Never Say Die
A Hard Road
Johnny Blade

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

There are people who don't rate NSD and that is fine by me, I don't rate MOR, we all have different opinions. But to me it is No. 3 of the great 8 after SBS and Sabotage. The only track I really don't like on it is the title track.

I think the album is different from the first 6 (and different again from TE), it is less "heavy" and more progressive with jazz influences (I wonder if that is a hangover from Dave Walkers input?). So if you prefer your Sabbath more heavy, less jazzy and less progressive you probably ain't gonna like NSD.

[Thelemech]

My three favorite Black Sabbath albums

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Sabotage
and - Never Say Die!

I love these albums more than any other music!! The three greatest Heavy Metal albums ever recorded.

[Billy Underdog]

Agree with the three above. I often think it's my fourth fave Sabbath album, just because it's so different. It moves around alot. And there's ofcourse Junior's Eyes and Breakout/Swinging. Johnny Blade is the only skipper for me.

[BOGBLAST]

I think "The Great 8" was a constant progression from start to finish. Every album they continued to move in a slightly different direction. SBS was a drastic change after Vol. 4, as well as TE from Sabotage. All good IMO. NSD was a little different too. I don't see an issue with sound quality and the riffage is right up there. Everybody bad mouths Breakout because of the horns. I believe the ACDC song "Whole Lotta Rosie" (correct me if I'm wrong) has bagpipes in it, so does that mean the song sucks? Personally I think Breakout is the perfect lead-in to Swinging the Chain which IMO is a monster.

I know it must have been difficult for the band to record this album but I think it came out great considering the circumstances. Let us raise a glass to NSD. 

P.S. Sorry Billy but I love Johnny Blade. The lyrics may leave something to be desired but the main riff is great and the change is heavy as f*#k.

[Thelemech]

 

[Charger]

The complete lost of musical direction is what ruins this album for me...

This is the LEAST Black Sabbath sounding album ever released under the Black Sabbath name....You make someone who doesn't know Sabbath and you play them lets say Paranoid and then NSD they would not know it is the same band...

There are very few bands in history that lost their musical direction more than Sabbath did starting with TE and culminating with NSD. But luckily they got back on track with Heaven And Hell and never lost it again.

[Billy Underdog]

But luckily they got back on track with Heaven And Hell and never lost it again.

[Typhon]

^^^^^^
I also found that a bit amusing, but I didn't have time to laugh.

[Charger]

Well like they say in Seinfeld....It's funny cause it's real.

[Axefiend]

I just never understood why they didn't just cancel the recording until they were ready if it was such a clusterfuck for them to write and record on the fly.
Having said that, I love NSD. The "great 8", are all great to me, and given the circumstances under which NSD was produced, makes it an even a greater achievement. I liken NSD to Zep's ITTOD. A band not firing on all cylinders, but with interesting results nonetheless.

[Ted Sallis]

NSD is my 2nd least favourite album from the Ozzy era of Sabbath, overtaken only by TE.  Tony has stated that as Ozzy re-joined the band only 2 days before they were due to start recording NSD and that Ozzy refused to sing any of the songs they had written during the short Dave Walker incarnation of Sabbath, they had to write an entire album worth of new songs right when they started recording the album.

Tony went on to say that due to the great time restraint caused by this, the band had no time to review the new songs they wrote and make changes, so the album as a result sounds very confused.  It seems there were 3 songs that were kept and put on the album, though: Junior's Eyes (with different lyrics and melody), Breakout (altered to be an instrumental track) and Swinging the Chain (sung by Bill instead).

Ted

[Jack the Stripper]

There are very few bands in history that lost their musical direction more than Sabbath did starting with TE and culminating with NSD. But luckily they got back on track with Heaven And Hell and never lost it again.

[Zzzptm]

Re: Charger's comment: Then explain please Seventh Star and/or Forbidden. And/or Tyr. And/or Headless Cross. Sorry, but I'mma have to card that comment.

There are some albums that because great because of their difficult circumstances. Machine Head is one of those.

Then there are albums that prove that difficult circumstances can lead to problems with the final product. Never Say Die! is one of those... I'd like to think that if a lot of the outside drama had been sorted out, they could have had a more time to work with this material and make it much better than it was.