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ROCK AND ROLL! => Black Sabbath => The Ozzy Years => Topic started by: Zzzptm on May 25, 2018, 06:49:31 AM
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13 is a Black Sabbath album. If you gotta have them all, you have to have this one, too. But, will it get played any more than a few times and then become a bookend for your Sabbath collection as you keep playing SBS and Vol. 4?
I actually didn't even buy it, I was so unimpressed with what I heard... :twitch:
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I play various parts of 13 on a regular basis. I have the version with the bonus disc and love that too. If you are as big a fan of the Great 8 as I am, then one should find 13 chalk full of excellent material. My favorites in no particular order:
:metal1: :drummer: :guitar:
End Of The Beginning
Zeitgeist
Age Of Reason
God Is Dead
Pariah
Methademic
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The only song that I've listened to in the last couple of years from 13 is Pariah. It's not that I think it's a horrible album, but why bother when I can listen to so many other Sabbath albums that are miles ahead. Maybe the vinyl will change my mind a little, if I ever get around to ordering it, it might be a little more dynamic than brickwalled CD version.
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I have three copies - One signed, another still sealed and the one that I now listen to. Also I bought it on Itunes on my old computer and it says 130 listens. I have not listened to it in a few months but I generally play it every couple of weeks.
But I am admittedly a completist when it comes to Black Sabbath.
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13 was a great album. I listened to it for about a year straight! 2013 was one of the best years of music for me ever! That being said, I have not listened to the album in quite some time. I definitely wore it out. I will have to give it a spin sometime soon.
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I have not listened to the album in quite some time. I definitely wore it out. I will have to give it a spin sometime soon.
Yeah I think I OD'd on it myself JS. But you're right, it does deserve another spin soon.
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I haven't listened to this covers album in a long time.
A huge disappointment in song writing department after the brilliant The Devil You Know....they just went back in time and copied everything they'd done in the past...naturally that was the idea in Ruin Rubin's mind all along so it is mainly his fault.
But it is clear there was very little originality and passion involved when they did this.
There is a huge difference between sounding like Black Sabbath and copying how Black Sabbath sounded in the early 70s.
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There is a huge difference between sounding like Black Sabbath and copying how Black Sabbath sounded in the early 70s.
I've read this script before, must be a copy. ;D Okay then:
Age Of Reason - What's that a copy of?
Methademic - What's that a copy of?
Pariah - What's that a copy of?
God Is Dead? - What's that a copy of?
It is the same band, so of course there will be some similarities. Copy, shmopy!
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There is a huge difference between sounding like Black Sabbath and copying how Black Sabbath sounded in the early 70s.
I've read this script before, must be a copy. ;D Okay then:
Age Of Reason - What's that a copy of?
Methademic - What's that a copy of?
Pariah - What's that a copy of?
God Is Dead? - What's that a copy of?
It is the same band, so of course there will be some similarities. Copy, shmopy!
Well God Is Dead uses a nearly identical riff to Hole In The Sky so... :P
But it's not really about just copying the songs it's the over all lack of originality that plagues the album as a whole. Everything has a tired and been there done that feel to it. It's the lack of trying to write new and original material that bugs me...and many others I might add.
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You really think at their stage of life they are going to come up with a original material. A back to roots approach was the only thing they could have done. Their not going to release an experimental progressive jazz instrumental album. They were trying to hit all the nostalgic Sabbath fans right in the feels. It was either that approach or Forbidden would have still been their latest album. It is so unrealistic to have any higher expectations than its a album that you would expect Black Sabbath to make. Its a timestamp in history where you will remember that when even though Sabbath didn't have to, they wanted to give their fans ones more morsel to chomp on before their drift off into the beyond. I for one am a fan of 13 and will always remember the most fantastic year with music I had in 2013.
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You really think at their stage of life they are going to come up with a original material. A back to roots approach was the only thing they could have done. Their not going to release an experimental progressive jazz instrumental album. They were trying to hit all the nostalgic Sabbath fans right in the feels. It was either that approach or Forbidden would have still been their latest album. It is so unrealistic to have any higher expectations than its a album that you would expect Black Sabbath to make. Its a timestamp in history where you will remember that when even though Sabbath didn't have to, they wanted to give their fans ones more morsel to chomp on before their drift off into the beyond. I for one am a fan of 13 and will always remember the most fantastic year with music I had in 2013.
this.
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You really think at their stage of life they are going to come up with a original material. A back to roots approach was the only thing they could have done. Their not going to release an experimental progressive jazz instrumental album. They were trying to hit all the nostalgic Sabbath fans right in the feels. It was either that approach or Forbidden would have still been their latest album. It is so unrealistic to have any higher expectations than its a album that you would expect Black Sabbath to make. Its a timestamp in history where you will remember that when even though Sabbath didn't have to, they wanted to give their fans ones more morsel to chomp on before their drift off into the beyond. I for one am a fan of 13 and will always remember the most fantastic year with music I had in 2013.
JSTHECONQUEROR just earned an awesomeness point from me. He talks from the heart here. :rockon:
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I agree with JS too.
And i find it sad that there doesn't seem to be much love for Live Forever. It's one of my faves from the album. Pretty run-off-the-mill, really, but great at that. It's just something with that triplet groove that always resonate with me.
I'm very glad we got that album, would've loved another one too, but in hindsight the album should probably've been called The End... We saw it coming with the album ending with rain and church bells, didn't we?
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I'm very glad we got that album, would've loved another one too, but in hindsight the album should probably've been called The End... We saw it coming with the album ending with rain and church bells, didn't we?
The 4 new tracks on "The End" are pretty awesome though.
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I'm very glad we got that album, would've loved another one too, but in hindsight the album should probably've been called The End... We saw it coming with the album ending with rain and church bells, didn't we?
The 4 new tracks on "The End" are pretty awesome though.
Yeah, i wish they would just put out all 16 tracks on a double album straight away. With those extra songs and a different running order the album might've been better...
Someone over at the other place made this running order out of the bonus tracks and The End ep, it makes for a pretty good running order:
Season Of The Dead
Pariah
Piece Of Mind
Methademic
Isolated Man
Naïvité In Black
Take Me Home
Cry All Night
That makes for the more "modern" Sabbath album Charg wanted, i think.
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^^^^^^
Agreed. This could have been the final album. :headbanger:
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Today I listened to 13 Deluxe edition, not as bad and redundant as I thought it was, I like it better than when it first came out.
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A lot of these songs sound like they could have been on other albums, but no real copies except this one at 3:02. Name that tune!
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It's not a bad album, all things considered. And I too looked at the bonus tracks (+ 'The End') as the 'modern' Sabbath album we could have gotten, it seemed that they were incorporating some variation that Rubin probably didn't care for, or that didn't fit his ethos.
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It's not a bad album, all things considered. And I too looked at the bonus tracks (+ 'The End') as the 'modern' Sabbath album we could have gotten, it seemed that they were incorporating some variation that Rubin probably didn't care for, or that didn't fit his ethos.
You might be right about that. :think:
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It's not a bad album, all things considered. And I too looked at the bonus tracks (+ 'The End') as the 'modern' Sabbath album we could have gotten, it seemed that they were incorporating some variation that Rubin probably didn't care for, or that didn't fit his ethos.
A lot of good songs Scott, Isolated Man kinda sounds like an Ozzy solo song instead of a Sabbath song, to me anyways.
I think Zeitgeist is one of the best songs on 13 after Age Of Reason.
Ozzy hadn't sounded this good since Ozzmosis.
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A lot of these songs sound like they could have been on other albums, but no real copies except this one at 3:02. Name that tune!
You will have to name it for me, Bog, I honestly can't tell?
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It's not a bad album, all things considered. And I too looked at the bonus tracks (+ 'The End') as the 'modern' Sabbath album we could have gotten, it seemed that they were incorporating some variation that Rubin probably didn't care for, or that didn't fit his ethos.
A lot of good songs Scott, Isolated Man kinda sounds like an Ozzy solo song instead of a Sabbath song, to me anyways.
I think Zeitgeist is one of the best songs on 13 after Age Of Reason.
Ozzy hadn't sounded this good since Ozzmosis.
Agreed. I get solo Ozzy vibes from Isolated Man's lyrics and vocal melodies in particular. I'll wager that it was one of the four tracks Ozzy wrote lyrics for it.
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It's not a bad album, all things considered. And I too looked at the bonus tracks (+ 'The End') as the 'modern' Sabbath album we could have gotten, it seemed that they were incorporating some variation that Rubin probably didn't care for, or that didn't fit his ethos.
A lot of good songs Scott, Isolated Man kinda sounds like an Ozzy solo song instead of a Sabbath song, to me anyways.
I think Zeitgeist is one of the best songs on 13 after Age Of Reason.
Ozzy hadn't sounded this good since Ozzmosis.
Agreed. I get solo Ozzy vibes from Isolated Man's lyrics and vocal melodies in particular. I'll wager that it was one of the four tracks Ozzy wrote lyrics for it.
That is probably what it is, it doesn’t have Sabbath essence to it, if you know what I mean, still good though.
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A lot of these songs sound like they could have been on other albums, but no real copies except this one at 3:02. Name that tune!
You will have to name it for me, Bog, I honestly can't tell?
You don't hear War Pigs?
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A lot of these songs sound like they could have been on other albums, but no real copies except this one at 3:02. Name that tune!
You will have to name it for me, Bog, I honestly can't tell?
You don't hear War Pigs?
Now that you mention it, I guess I can hear it for a few seconds.
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Been listening to 13 quite a bit the last couple of days after doing my preferred and what I think is a much better track sequencing than what was put out.
I've also left off Loner & Live Forever. Not that I dislike those songs, I just like the two I've added more. Clocks in at 60 minutes, which is more than reasonable.
1) End Of The Beginning
2) Season Of The Dead
3) God Is Dead?
4) Zeitgeist
5) Age Of Reason
Side 2
6) Cry All Night
7) Methademic
8)Damaged Soul
9) Pariah
10) Dear Father
Try it and let me know what yous think 8)
Rick Rubin is an idiot btw :)
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Hmmm... I've never considered putting those extra tracks in the mix... I think I gotta give this a try. Although I'd leave out Zeitgeist and maybe throw in Live Forever instead.
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I like Zeitgeist, but I also think it's good to have a softer slower track to break it up and add variation, just like 13 & TDYK needed a faster rocking track.
I think there is a good amount of variation in the track sequencing I created.
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Zeitgeist is probably my least favourite...it doesn't have an original note on it. Planet Caravan pt. 1.5... Damaged Soul has got that blues vibe that is softer enough.
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Zeitgeist is probably my least favourite...it doesn't have an original note on it. Planet Caravan pt. 1.5... Damaged Soul has got that blues vibe that is softer enough.
I've always enjoyed Sabbath's softer side and like when bands do a similar sounding song that works like like a companion or sequel to the original. I think they really nailed it with Zeitgeist. Great song!
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Zeitgeist is probably my least favourite...it doesn't have an original note on it. Planet Caravan pt. 1.5... Damaged Soul has got that blues vibe that is softer enough.
I've always enjoyed Sabbath's softer side and like when bands do a similar sounding song that works like like a companion or sequel to the original. I think they really nailed it with Zeitgeist. Great song!
I really like Zeitgeist a lot too. But I don't understand why you mixed The End with 13. :o In my mind they are 2 separate CDs.
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Zeitgeist is probably my least favourite...it doesn't have an original note on it. Planet Caravan pt. 1.5... Damaged Soul has got that blues vibe that is softer enough.
I've always enjoyed Sabbath's softer side and like when bands do a similar sounding song that works like like a companion or sequel to the original. I think they really nailed it with Zeitgeist. Great song!
I really like Zeitgeist a lot too. But I don't understand why you mixed The End with 13. :o In my mind they are 2 separate CDs.
They are all from the same recording session and it was Rubin that chose the final track listing and the sequencing for 13. That's why I combined it and is what I think wouldve made 13 much better.
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I really like Zeitgeist a lot too. But I don't understand why you mixed The End with 13. :o In my mind they are 2 separate CDs.
Well techincally both yes and no. As all the songs were recorded at the same time during the 13 sessions and any of those songs could have ended up on 13. In fact if I recall right Tony mentioned in an interview that he would have chosen a very different bunch of songs to be on the actual album than what Ruin Rubin did.
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I really like Zeitgeist a lot too. But I don't understand why you mixed The End with 13. :o In my mind they are 2 separate CDs.
Well techincally both yes and no. As all the songs were recorded at the same time during the 13 sessions and any of those songs could have ended up on 13. In fact if I recall right Tony mentioned in an interview that he would have chosen a very different bunch of songs to be on the actual album than what Ruin Rubin did.
And it is that which I can't understand. If it were me in a legendary band like that, I would want to be making those decisions. I am kind of a hands-on guy anyways, but it just seems ridiculous.
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I really like Zeitgeist a lot too. But I don't understand why you mixed The End with 13. :o In my mind they are 2 separate CDs.
Well techincally both yes and no. As all the songs were recorded at the same time during the 13 sessions and any of those songs could have ended up on 13. In fact if I recall right Tony mentioned in an interview that he would have chosen a very different bunch of songs to be on the actual album than what Ruin Rubin did.
And it is that which I can't understand. If it were me in a legendary band like that, I would want to be making those decisions. I am kind of a hands-on guy anyways, but it just seems ridiculous.
I do agree BUT in the music biz it is the producer who decides the track listing usually. And Rubin is quite the dictator from what I've heard so it's pretty much always his way or no way.
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I really like Zeitgeist a lot too. But I don't understand why you mixed The End with 13. :o In my mind they are 2 separate CDs.
Well techincally both yes and no. As all the songs were recorded at the same time during the 13 sessions and any of those songs could have ended up on 13. In fact if I recall right Tony mentioned in an interview that he would have chosen a very different bunch of songs to be on the actual album than what Ruin Rubin did.
And it is that which I can't understand. If it were me in a legendary band like that, I would want to be making those decisions. I am kind of a hands-on guy anyways, but it just seems ridiculous.
I do agree BUT in the music biz it is the producer who decides the track listing usually. And Rubin is quite the dictator from what I've heard so it's pretty much always his way or no way.
Maybe a young band starting out but I wouldn't think its a usual occurrence that a producer has so much pull over a band the calibre of Black Sabbath.
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Maybe a young band starting out but I wouldn't think its a usual occurrence that a producer has so much pull over a band the calibre of Black Sabbath.
Actually I think it has less to do about the caliber of the band and more about the caliber of the producer.
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Maybe a young band starting out but I wouldn't think its a usual occurrence that a producer has so much pull over a band the calibre of Black Sabbath.
Actually I think it has less to do about the caliber of the band and more about the caliber of the producer.
Depends how much the band believes in the way they think something should be and how much they're prepared to dig their heels in to get their way. By the sounds of it I don't think Sabbath put up too much resistance to Rubin though.
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There can be lots of discussions that influence a decision to release an album you're not happy with. Things like, "You want to sell records? Then you get back in there with the producer and do everything he says!" Big labels don't want to roll the dice, they want a sure thing. The money comes first, which is why the labels want a branded producer like ***RICK FRIGGIN RUBIN, DUDE!*** to produce the album.
Robert Fripp and Todd Rundgren were some of the first artists to go totally solo in terms of running their own production, distribution, and management. Maybe there's less media exposure for new releases, but there's also total freedom in artistic direction. That's a huge risk, total freedom, but it's an honest look at what the artist wants, not what got taken away or added to make a safe, commercial product.
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^^That can be true a lot of the times but in regards to Rick Rubin I think it was his own desire and relentless pursuit for years to produce a new Black Sabbath album going back to the abandoned sessions in 2001 rather than a label push.
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^^That can be true a lot of the times but in regards to Rick Rubin I think it was his own desire and relentless pursuit for years to produce a new Black Sabbath album going back to the abandoned sessions in 2001 rather than a label push.
So did Black Sabbath also have the same desire to be produced by Rick Rubin, or were they letting him be a superfan in the studio?
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Well they might have had...Rubin was a pretty big name producer after all...
But after hearing the end result I do think (or hope anyways) that they might have regretted that a bit.
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^^That can be true a lot of the times but in regards to Rick Rubin I think it was his own desire and relentless pursuit for years to produce a new Black Sabbath album going back to the abandoned sessions in 2001 rather than a label push.
So did Black Sabbath also have the same desire to be produced by Rick Rubin, or were they letting him be a superfan in the studio?
I think he was that passionate about producing it they couldn't say no. And yes they allowed him to be a superfan. Sabbaths attention to detail has never been one of their strong suits, especially since they've all had their own seperate managers.
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Been listening to 13 quite a bit the last couple of days after doing my preferred and what I think is a much better track sequencing than what was put out.
I've also left off Loner & Live Forever. Not that I dislike those songs, I just like the two I've added more. Clocks in at 60 minutes, which is more than reasonable.
1) End Of The Beginning
2) Season Of The Dead
3) God Is Dead?
4) Zeitgeist
5) Age Of Reason
Side 2
6) Cry All Night
7) Methademic
8)Damaged Soul
9) Pariah
10) Dear Father
Try it and let me know what yous think 8)
Rick Rubin is an idiot btw :)
Here is the way I would have done it:
13
side 1 (25:30)
1. End Of The Beginning
2. Naivete In Black
3. Zeitgeist
4. God Is Dead?
side 2 (24:05)
5. Live Forever
6. Loner
7. Dear Father (minus storm/bells)
8. Age Of Reason
The End
side 1 (23:10)
1. Season Of The Dead
2. Peace Of Mind
3. Isolated Man
4. Damaged Soul
side 2 (22:42)
5. Methademic
6. Cry All Night (minus storm/bells)
7. Pariah
8. Take Me Home/The End (includes storm/bells)
Notes:
1) Total time for 13 approximately 49:35.
2) Total time for The End approximately 45:52.
3) The final song is appropriately titled.
4) They started this entire journey with the storm/bells, and they finish the journey with the storm/bells. Done.
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Been listening to 13 quite a bit the last couple of days after doing my preferred and what I think is a much better track sequencing than what was put out.
I've also left off Loner & Live Forever. Not that I dislike those songs, I just like the two I've added more. Clocks in at 60 minutes, which is more than reasonable.
1) End Of The Beginning
2) Season Of The Dead
3) God Is Dead?
4) Zeitgeist
5) Age Of Reason
Side 2
6) Cry All Night
7) Methademic
8)Damaged Soul
9) Pariah
10) Dear Father
Try it and let me know what yous think 8)
Rick Rubin is an idiot btw :)
Here is the way I would have done it:
13
side 1 (25:30)
1. End Of The Beginning
2. Naivete In Black
3. Zeitgeist
4. God Is Dead?
side 2 (24:05)
5. Live Forever
6. Loner
7. Dear Father (minus storm/bells)
8. Age Of Reason
The End
side 1 (23:10)
1. Season Of The Dead
2. Peace Of Mind
3. Isolated Man
4. Damaged Soul
side 2 (22:42)
5. Methademic
6. Cry All Night (minus storm/bells)
7. Pariah
8. Take Me Home/The End (includes storm/bells)
Notes:
1) Total time for 13 approximately 49:35.
2) Total time for The End approximately 45:52.
3) The final song is appropriately titled.
4) They started this entire journey with the storm/bells, and they finish the journey with the storm/bells. Done.
Not bad but I prefer mine ;D Interested why you've left Damaged Soul off 13? One of the best tracks for me
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^^^^^^
I wanted to include DS on The End, plus it helped keep 13 from being too long.
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^^^35 years between albums from the original era, it could've been a 10 song 60 minute album at least.
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^^^35 years between albums from the original era, it could've been a 10 song 60 minute album at least.
True, I just wanted 13 and The End to be some what balanced. I never liked the way they put 4 live songs on The End to finish it all off.
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What are the chances we get the Bill Ward sessions released on a Deluxe Edition 13?
This album has grown on me.