Grunge: Metal or not?

[Zzzptm]

Is it metal or not? I'm saying no, not metal. Stoner/desert/fuzz often steps into metal territory and when they don't go metallic, they go in the direction of a more honest and ballsy 70s hard rock sound.

Whether you like it or not, grunge *is* saddled with the commercialism that got lumped in with the less radio-friendly bands. But the instrumentation stayed roughly the same, even if the vocals had to be cleaned up for the songs to have some commercial potential.

And that's where the ultimate letdown in grunge comes for me. It's not metal, even though it sits awfully close to metal on the musical bench. It falls just short of of that mark and instead finds a way to make almost everything sound like a dirge or a lament or a selfish demand. It doesn't give me energy the way rock or metal does - it sucks the life out of me, making me either want to quit or take a nap or both.

[JSTHECONQUEROR]

Have not listened to this for awhile! A good live rendition that goes to supersonic speeds!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX2arumaiPc

[Zzzptm]

I got to where the singing started and had to bail. No me gusta.

[Zzzptm]

Here is me gusta...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJGW6AY2cZE

The differences? They're there, because this song has what it takes to get me to play it over and over again. It's got some good metal sensibility in it, even if the melody isn't 100% metal like Saxon or Judas Priest. It's about as close as I can get to grunge, but that's because of the band's development into a stoner direction. Their second and third albums I like best. Their first? Ouch. There's good stuff on it, but then there are about 2 or 3 tracks that are just too damn sludgey for me to listen to again. I think of Cojones as grunge that grew up and figured out how to do better.

[Charger]

But if nothing else you've just proved you're biased and have no interest in revisiting your misunderstood perceptions based on a small fad that really had nothing to do with the genre in question in the first place. But, hey. We can't all be open minded...

So it would be open minded of me to force myself to listen music I do not like? Well okay...I guess I'm not open minded then...but if that's your definition you should be listening to DIO all the time then as you are sooooo open minded and everything!
But yeah I'm biased...I don't like listening to music I don't like. So sue me.

Like I said, I tried to give Soundgarden and some other grunge bands (can't even remember the names) a chance but no...that stuff just isn't for me. Give me classic good old fashioned hard rock and metal any day...

I am fully in line with ZZZ and Tyr...

Also if I haven't made it clear I do also agree that Chris Cornell was a very talented singer, it's actually a real shame that he didn't have a better band.

Nothing more for me to really say about this topic.

[Zzzptm]

MODERATION NOTE: Just realized we had a bit of a personal dust-up between Billy and Charger there... hope that we can make amends between people even if we don't see eye to eye on preferences or issues.

[Charger]

MODERATION NOTE: Just realized we had a bit of a personal dust-up between Billy and Charger there... hope that we can make amends between people even if we don't see eye to eye on preferences or issues.

Oh nothing really personal on my behalf anyways...didn't mean to make it look like that either but I guess I got carried away a bit there...
I know Billy and I don't see eye to eye on more things than we do but we still get along. Hopefully after this too!

I do know Billy thinks I'm a lesser being than he is...but then again most people think that, which can only mean that I am...and I'm also okay with that too...I know what I am and I also know that ain't much.

[Billy Underdog]

But if nothing else you've just proved you're biased and have no interest in revisiting your misunderstood perceptions based on a small fad that really had nothing to do with the genre in question in the first place. But, hey. We can't all be open minded...

So it would be open minded of me to force myself to listen music I do not like? Well okay...I guess I'm not open minded then...but if that's your definition you should be listening to DIO all the time then as you are sooooo open minded and everything!
But yeah I'm biased...I don't like listening to music I don't like. So sue me.

Once again; the way you talk about it make it seem like your opinion is based on what came after Grunge, what wrongly was called Grunge, but really had nothing to do with it. And you don't seem particulary interested in going back to check out what that actually was.

As for me and Dio, you know i was a huge fan as a teen, even some of his solo albums. I've outgrown that, just like i outgrew Stratovarius and Dimmu Borgir. But atleast i've been into it enough to actually know what i'm talking about.

MODERATION NOTE: Just realized we had a bit of a personal dust-up between Billy and Charger there...

No personal attacks here, this is just the way true friends talk to each others sometimes. Atleast how Charg and i have developed our friendship. Afiak, none of us have reported any posts yet.
Actually there was a pretty blatant "Fuck You!!!" directed towards another member in one of the more political threads recently, i was pretty surprised noone reacted to that.

[Billy Underdog]

I do know Billy thinks I'm a lesser being than he is...

Well... Everyone is. But out of all those less than me, you rank higher than most. \../,

[Charger]

Well... Everyone is. But out of all those less than me, you rank higher than most. \../,

Oh my...that must be the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.... 


Ooops missed this post:

Once again; the way you talk about it make it seem like your opinion is based on what came after Grunge, what wrongly was called Grunge, but really had nothing to do with it. And you don't seem particulary interested in going back to check out what that actually was.

Well what bands are you referring to then? I am more than willing to check out some bands that I have missed then considering this pre-grunge grunge thing you're talking about...

[Zzzptm]

For some reason, this got labeled Grunge, even though it's quite clear to me that it's more desert with a touch of goth/doom...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFSX5v-Nbe0

 

Time to head to Bandcamp...

[Vyn]

Grunge != Metal

I do agree with Billy that there is a distinction to be made between what was being played in the clubs of the NW USA and what became record-label freeze-dried note-patterns called "grunge".

[Billy Underdog]

Z; you keep talking about Stoner. You know there's a distinction between Stoner Rock and Stoner Metal, right?
And throwing "desert Rock" (aka. Stoner Rockers who don't wanna be called Stoner Rock) into the fold, they're both part of that umbrella term called alternative Rock/Metal, in which Grunge also go.
As for Stoner Metal and Doom, they're closely linked with Sludge, which (partly) has it's origins in proto-Grunge.

Seeing how all this link together, but still not being able to see how connected Grunge and Metal is, is just baffling...

What about Kyuss? Metal or not?

[Typhon]

Actually there was a pretty blatant "Fuck You!!!" directed towards another member in one of the more political threads recently, i was pretty surprised noone reacted to that.

And for that remark, I apologize to Billy.  Something he said struck a chord within me for reasons that I will not go into here.  But it was no excuse to allow anger to get the best of me.  At worst I should have said "fuck that", which would have been an entirely different meaning. 

Didn't mean to change the subject for which this thread was intended.  I was going to send Billy a pm, but I felt that would be hiding the admission of my error, which IMO is a bit gutless.  And I don't do gutless.

[Billy Underdog]

Actually there was a pretty blatant "Fuck You!!!" directed towards another member in one of the more political threads recently, i was pretty surprised noone reacted to that.

And for that remark, I apologize to Billy.  Something he said struck a chord within me for reasons that I will not go into here.  But it was no excuse to allow anger to get the best of me.  At worst I should have said "fuck that", which would have been an entirely different meaning. 

Didn't mean to change the subject for which this thread was intended.  I was going to send Billy a pm, but I felt that would be hiding the admission of my error, which IMO is a bit gutless.  And I don't do gutless.

Water under the bridge. The most important thing is that you've seen the difference in attacking an argument and personal attacks. A "fuck that" instead would be within the parameters we've tried to set up for this site. But a first bump in the mod-road, and noone even noticed... All good. And i'm happy to see you're still around, was afraid i had pushed you away with my mix of opinions and tounge-in-cheek humour... Gutless you're not, buddy.

Back to (almost) topic: Kyuss; Metal or not?