Who are your heroes?

[Billy Underdog]

Do you have any heroes? Or atleast idols?

Here's four of mine:

Frank Aarebrot:


Professor of comparative politics and democratic development. He could just as easily talk about the political sides of how king Olav Harraldson (the "so-called" Holy) "christianized" Norway in 1030 as the latest Trump election. Greatest political mind Norway've ever had. And he was funny. Sadly passed away last September.

Per Fugelli:


Professor of social medicine and left wing political wildman. Have spent the last ten years dying, and i've never heard anyone say so much reasonable things about living during those years. Passed away last September too.
His equation for good health: h = b x c x p² (Health equals body times crowd (the people around you, both the large crowd and the small crowd) times politics squared)
His son told a great story about when he had his medical practice in the northern regions of Norway, and he had to check the  genitals of this old Sami man. The Sami refused to take his pants off, so Per tried to make him drunk on physician alcohol. That didn't help, so he desided to make it less unconfortable by pulling his own pants down. Just the image of him standing there with his pants around the ankles getting drunk with this old Sami dude... 

Johan Galtung:


The father of Peace science. Pretty much all of his predictions since the 60's have come through. Hoping that one of his latest; the fall of the American empire will too. As he says: "I love the American republic, but i hate the American empire".
Trump entering the picture ofcourse probably will help that prediction.

Jan Itor:


Probably the greatest philosophical mind of them all.

[Zzzptm]

Heroes, eh?

For me, just about anyone that put his life on the line for the Civil Rights movement in the USA in the 60s is a hero, even if that person is complicated and full of faults. We can't take away the facts of that person's bravery.

So I'll start with Medgar Evers.



He struggled against white supremacism until an assassin's bullet took him down. He was nonviolent and proved that a man can live with dignity, even if the system is rigged to try and rob him of it.

His home in Jackson, MS is a museum now and I have been fortunate enough to be able to visit it and take in the history there.

[Thelemech]

 

Aleister Crowley
H.P. Lovecraft
Stephen King
Robert Anton Wilson
Israel Regardie
Edgar Allan Poe
Albert Einstein

These would be my main influences and heroes though there are others.

[Zzzptm]

Everyone in this video is a hero for me. They all faced persecution and/or continue to fight for human rights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xevGz8_MBKk

I cry each time I sing along with it and I love it.

[Charger]

This is a rather difficult one really....I could state some from the music world but that's bit too obvious...so I won't.

I have a few... William Shatner is probably my biggest one followed by Clint Eastwood...and Arnold Schwarzenegger too. I think mainly my heroes come from the movie world.

The great scientists of old also will always have a special place in my heart, Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Nikolaus Kopernikus and so forth...science wouldn't be what it is without them.

[Zzzptm]

For me, putting someone up as a "hero" means that I accept that this was an imperfect person but, for some reason, this person stepped out and did something above average, even if it wasn't noticed. My great-great-grandfather is a hero to me, for the way he remained optimistic throughout his life and for the example he left behind.

[Sabbabbath]

Heroes, eh?

For me, just about anyone that put his life on the line for the Civil Rights movement in the USA in the 60s is a hero, even if that person is complicated and full of faults. We can't take away the facts of that person's bravery.

So I'll start with Medgar Evers.



He struggled against white supremacism until an assassin's bullet took him down. He was nonviolent and proved that a man can live with dignity, even if the system is rigged to try and rob him of it.

His home in Jackson, MS is a museum now and I have been fortunate enough to be able to visit it and take in the history there.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Of course, tragedy - based on the racist structures that Evers had fought against - wasn't over after he was hit by the bullet:

He was taken to the local hospital in Jackson, Mississippi, where he was initially refused entry because of his race.

Evers was the first African American to be admitted to an all-white hospital in Mississippi, a questionable achievement for the dying activist.

All-white juries in February and April 1964 deadlocked on De La Beckwith's guilt and failed to reach a verdict. At the time, most blacks were disenfranchised by Mississippi's constitution and voter registration practices; this meant they were also excluded from juries, which were drawn from the pool of registered voters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers

He was shot in 1963; his killer, Byron De La Beckwith, was only, finally, convicted of murder in 1994. He died in 2001, so the time he spent in jail was nothing compared to the time he had gone free after the murder.

I think I don't really have heroes, but I do like some of the people that have been mentioned on this thread.

[Billy Underdog]

For me, putting someone up as a "hero" means that I accept that this was an imperfect person but, for some reason, this person stepped out and did something above average, even if it wasn't noticed. My great-great-grandfather is a hero to me, for the way he remained optimistic throughout his life and for the example he left behind.

That's also an interesting discussion, defining what a hero is. To me it's someone who've said or done something important for the world. Or simply, as you put it "above average". As such, most of those on Thel and Chargs lists i would consider idols as they (my guess) are more admired for their work (as nothing else was specified). In that regard, Bill Ward is an idol of mine for his work as a drummer. Geezer are both, an idol for his great bass playing, and a hero for some of his observations about the world, be it in his lyrics or otherwize.

I notice i'm a bit torn in the definition myself, as i could easily have said "Bill Ward is my hero of drumming". I realize it's a fine line between the two.

That being said, i agree with your pickings being true heroes, Dozy. Putting your life on the line for human decency is nothing but heroic.

[Zzzptm]

I like the idol/hero distinction. Bobby Fischer would be one of the most extreme examples. I am amazed at his chess prowess, but I do NOT want to start a conversation with him on any other topic.

Pretty much the same with Eric Clapton... play the blues, sure, but I do NOT want to hear his comments on race relations.

But for a hero to remain a hero, there are many things I like to know, such as a hero's full life. Helen Keller is a great example.

As Helen Keller learns to communicate, the whole of the USA cheers for that little girl.

She goes to college, as well? And starts to write professionally on top of that? Three cheers for a true American hero?

And she wrote about... Socialism? Helped to found the ACLU? This is where a lot of conservatives check their watches and smartphones and say "ooh, is that the time?" as they make their exits.

Then Keller's support of eugenics makes the remaining liberals squirm in their chairs and try to parse her statements...

To me, she's still a hero because she fought for rights and for the dignity of people with disabilities. I'm not thrilled about her support of eugenics or the IWW, but those are but two facets of this complicated person. It would not be right to judge someone based on such incomplete criteria.

[Billy Underdog]

Have there ever even been one single person having lived a perfect life? I'm sure even Buddha and Jesus had their not-so-good sides... Some of the Nag Hammadi gospels paint Jesus as a real brat.

About talking chess prowess, in a conversation with Magnus Carlsen i'd rather talk about Donald Duck. I know he's a huge fan, and i know that would be a much more interesting conversation for me, as i could actually respond with interest and knowledge.

Chess to me is a musical written by Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus (of ABBA)...

[Charger]

Well in this context the difference between an idol and a hero isn't all that big....in fact there really isn't one truth be told. Because everyone in everyone's lists have done something to contribute to the world that has made it a better place.

Ofcourse the only true Heroes out there are the men and women who risk their lives (or make the ultimate sacrifice) to protect others...Police Officers, Firefighters and soldiers...why not sometimes just a regular person too, like many during the 9/11. But I didn't really think that was what this was suppose to be about...

[Billy Underdog]

Well in this context the difference between an idol and a hero isn't all that big....in fact there really isn't one truth be told. Because everyone in everyone's lists have done something to contribute to the world that has made it a better place.

So what good have Arnold Schwarzenegger playing in a couple of entertaining movies done to the world?

Have got my doubts about police officers and soldiers, too. People who love harassing others (the first) or simply just looking for an excuse to have a fight (the second) can hardly be considered "heroes". Yes, i am generalizing here. There's one police officer out of three who actually want to make society better... Still too few. Just my personal opinion...

And the worms was out of the can...

[Zzzptm]

So, you're basing your views of Jesus on writings from the Nag Hammadi? Innnnnnnnnnteresting... why don't you write them all down and I'll read them later, mmmmmkaaaay?





That's the other thing about heroes and villains, they get a lot of mythology written about them, which clouds a proper view of the person. And, yes, a hero for one can be a devil for another. Consider Alexander the Great: Greeks are fans of his, Persians spit when they mention his name.

Even villains can have redeeming features, they're not complete abominations. No human is perfectly good, no human is perfectly bad. It's the measure of the whole person that we have to do and, whenever we're honest, all people are a shade of grey between an angel bright and demon dark.

[Billy Underdog]

So, you're basing your views of Jesus on writings from the Nag Hammadi?

Naaahhh, i would rather say i'm not basing my views just on the few texts that the church deemed fitting for their agenda, but on all available texts stemming from within a reasonable timeframe.

Good point about Alex the great. Many examples like that. Charlemagne/Charles "the great" is viewed as a hero by many Europeans for gathering what became the second "holy" Roman empire. Cutting edge research suggest that the Viking pillaging that started in the late 8th century wasn't simply pillaging (which the Nordics had done since the 3rd century anyways, along with trading), but an actual attempt to stop further expansion of Charlies empire and the christianity that followed. And suddenly Charlie isn't such a big hero for Scandinavian history buffs any longer. He just doesn't surf...

[Charger]

So what good have Arnold Schwarzenegger playing in a couple of entertaining movies done to the world?

Have got my doubts about police officers and soldiers, too. People who love harassing others (the first) or simply just looking for an excuse to have a fight (the second) can hardly be considered "heroes". Yes, i am generalizing here. There's one police officer out of three who actually want to make society better... Still too few. Just my personal opinion...

And the worms was out of the can...

First of all Entertainment is pretty darn important to the world. My god...what a horrible place world would be without entertainment? Hell none of us would be here talking about anything if it wouldn't have been of the entertainment Black Sabbath gave us....

Second of all....The fact that there are people out there risking their lives every single day so that the rest of us could live our lives in peace...that is the ultimate heroism.

What would you prefer then? Total anarchy where there are no laws and no one to police them and we could all just go around stealing and destroying everything and killing each other at will?
I seriously think not.

Also I think you got your figures waaay twisted...More like 1 bad cop in every 10000 good ones. Unless things are seriously messed up in Norway which I highly doubt...just cause they don't like if you do something illegal (like smoke pot *hint hint*) doesn't mean they just love harassing people for no reason...

Oh no no no...Let's not put down people who risk everything to give us a safer life. Let's not be "those" kinds of people.