Politics in history. In general.

[Zzzptm]

Yes, I agree it's a democracy issue, but it's the Republican Party that has moved in 49 of 50 states to either enact, maintain, or expand voting restrictions that impact minorities disproportionately, with a complete suite of legislation that includes voter ID laws.

As for the claim that photo ID makes it too difficult for minorities to vote, that's been in evidence since before 1964, when it was Southern Democrats making that requirement - and the same "you need ID to drive" justification that masked the racism in the intent.

Typhon, if Republicans wanted more accurate elections, why are they constantly using voter purge methodology that is proven to have an extremely high false positive rate that impacts Black voters far out of proportion to White voters? Sorry, but this is one of the prices the Republicans have to pay when they ally up with white supremacists to foist their views on abortion and gun control on the rest of the nation - racial discrimination goes along with that package.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

In the UK the electoral register is updated pretty quickly after someone dies. Last year we had a general election on the 12th December. Dad died on the 22nd Oct, and the polling cards were sent out 3-4 weeks later, we didn't get one for dad.

We don't have Id cards in the UK and there would be an outrage worse than a Brexit debate if the government tried to introduce one. Even without one there is very little suggestion that electoral fraud is prevalent in the UK.

[Charger]

We don't have Id cards in the UK and there would be an outrage worse than a Brexit debate if the government tried to introduce one. Even without one there is very little suggestion that electoral fraud is prevalent in the UK.

Hang on? What??? You don't have any form of ID in the UK? No passports no drivers licences nothing? How in the hell does that work?!!?!

[Charger]

in evidence since before 1964, when it was Southern Democrats making that requirement - and the same "you need ID to drive" justification that masked the racism in the intent.

Honestly...I just don't understand why demanding an ID to vote can ever be considered racist??? That's so so stupid argument.

As that would mean the whole of Finland would be racist, and Sweden, and Norway and Germany and about gazillion other countries...totally ridiculous.

The only reason to NOT want ID to vote is to maintain the possibility to rig elections. Simple as that.

Every single citizen can get an ID. Every single one. It might be difficult due to some regulations but if you want one you can get one. Period.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

We don't have Id cards in the UK and there would be an outrage worse than a Brexit debate if the government tried to introduce one. Even without one there is very little suggestion that electoral fraud is prevalent in the UK.

Hang on? What??? You don't have any form of ID in the UK? No passports no drivers licences nothing? How in the hell does that work?!!?!

Well of course we have them, but not everybody has one (for instance, I don't have a driving licence and my mother doesn't have a passport, and I don't think I would have to go too far to find a friend or relative who doesn't have either). What I'm talking about is a dedicated ID card. This was considered by the then government about 15-20 years ago... and would have caused the uproar I alluded to... the idea was eventually dropped. It's funny, people are happy to have passports and driving licences but making them have a dedicated ID card is beyond the pale!

[Typhon]

Typhon, if Republicans wanted more accurate elections, why are they constantly using voter purge methodology that is proven to have an extremely high false positive rate that impacts Black voters far out of proportion to White voters? Sorry, but this is one of the prices the Republicans have to pay when they ally up with white supremacists to foist their views on abortion and gun control on the rest of the nation - racial discrimination goes along with that package.

Continuing to sling this mud about white supremacists garbage in the hopes that some of it is going to stick, is a waste of time.  You don't hear me bringing up the fact that it was Lincoln and the Republicans who fought to end the slavery which the Democrats had no problem with, do you?  So stop baiting me with this tactic, already.

[Charger]

We don't have Id cards in the UK and there would be an outrage worse than a Brexit debate if the government tried to introduce one. Even without one there is very little suggestion that electoral fraud is prevalent in the UK.

Hang on? What??? You don't have any form of ID in the UK? No passports no drivers licences nothing? How in the hell does that work?!!?!

Well of course we have them, but not everybody has one (for instance, I don't have a driving licence and my mother doesn't have a passport, and I don't think I would have to go too far to find a friend or relative who doesn't have either). What I'm talking about is a dedicated ID card. This was considered by the then government about 15-20 years ago... and would have caused the uproar I alluded to... the idea was eventually dropped. It's funny, people are happy to have passports and driving licences but making them have a dedicated ID card is beyond the pale!

Yeah but Driver's licences and Passports ARE ID's.

So obviously you have them. And that's what is used to prove one's identity. Would also work in a voting situation naturally.

We also have a dedicated ID card too which is an option if you do not have Driver's licence or Passport. One of them is mandatory in order to live here. One can't even open a bank account without one...nor can they vote without one obviously.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

We don't have Id cards in the UK and there would be an outrage worse than a Brexit debate if the government tried to introduce one. Even without one there is very little suggestion that electoral fraud is prevalent in the UK.

Hang on? What??? You don't have any form of ID in the UK? No passports no drivers licences nothing? How in the hell does that work?!!?!

Well of course we have them, but not everybody has one (for instance, I don't have a driving licence and my mother doesn't have a passport, and I don't think I would have to go too far to find a friend or relative who doesn't have either). What I'm talking about is a dedicated ID card. This was considered by the then government about 15-20 years ago... and would have caused the uproar I alluded to... the idea was eventually dropped. It's funny, people are happy to have passports and driving licences but making them have a dedicated ID card is beyond the pale!

Yeah but Driver's licences and Passports ARE ID's.

So obviously you have them. And that's what is used to prove one's identity. Would also work in a voting situation naturally.

We also have a dedicated ID card too which is an option if you do not have Driver's licence or Passport. One of them is mandatory in order to live here. One can't even open a bank account without one...nor can they vote without one obviously.

But that's the point, not everyone has one and there is no requirement to have an ID like that, so many people will be unable to vote if they introduced the requirement. They aren't talking about introducing voter IDs but if voter fraud ever became an issue it might have to be reconsidered.

[Charger]

We don't have Id cards in the UK and there would be an outrage worse than a Brexit debate if the government tried to introduce one. Even without one there is very little suggestion that electoral fraud is prevalent in the UK.

Hang on? What??? You don't have any form of ID in the UK? No passports no drivers licences nothing? How in the hell does that work?!!?!

Well of course we have them, but not everybody has one (for instance, I don't have a driving licence and my mother doesn't have a passport, and I don't think I would have to go too far to find a friend or relative who doesn't have either). What I'm talking about is a dedicated ID card. This was considered by the then government about 15-20 years ago... and would have caused the uproar I alluded to... the idea was eventually dropped. It's funny, people are happy to have passports and driving licences but making them have a dedicated ID card is beyond the pale!

Yeah but Driver's licences and Passports ARE ID's.

So obviously you have them. And that's what is used to prove one's identity. Would also work in a voting situation naturally.

We also have a dedicated ID card too which is an option if you do not have Driver's licence or Passport. One of them is mandatory in order to live here. One can't even open a bank account without one...nor can they vote without one obviously.

But that's the point, not everyone has one and there is no requirement to have an ID like that, so many people will be unable to vote if they introduced the requirement. They aren't talking about introducing voter IDs but if voter fraud ever became an issue it might have to be reconsidered.

But I honestly don't understand how you can carry on with your everyday life without any form of ID?? How do you get a bank account? How do you pay with a credit card if it needs id validation? How do you buy an appartment or a house? Go to the doctor? Get a job for that matter??? Makes no sense to me that one could live a productive life without any form of ID... 

[Zzzptm]

Typhon: Your history is incomplete. While Democrats enacted Jim Crow laws in the South, it was Republican legislatures that put them into place in the North: states just across the Ohio River - Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio - actually had Black Codes in place shortly after the Civil War ended. Since the end of the Civil War, neither party was particularly emphatic about equal rights. The Plessy ruling that paved the way for segregation was handed down by a 7-1 ruling, with Republican justices dominant in the majority bloc.

The Civil Rights Era saw Southern Democrats break with the national Democratic Party, starting in 1948 and accelerating after 1964 after LBJ pushed through the Civil Rights Act. When you look at the party rule in Southern states since Reconstruction, it's solidly Democratic until about the late 70s, when the Democratic Party was pushing out white supremacist candidates. Those politicians remained active and affiliated with the Republican Party.

I'm not baiting you, it's a matter of historical fact. When we get to current events, there are numerous cases of white supremacists supporting, participating in, and being nominated by the Republican Party. I went over voting rights legislative records in all 50 states and only in Utah was the Republican Party active in expanding voting rights. In all other 49 states, they were squarely opposed to voting rights measures. Even setting aside voter ID laws written to exclude minorities, there's still the matter of voter purges, restrictive voter registration laws, restrictions on early and absentee voting, and other measures that are designed to make it much more difficult for minorities to cast their votes. This is not a "both parties are doing it" sort of thing - it's exclusively in Republican Party-backed legislation. There have been multiple suits against the state and national Republican Party organizations in recent years over violations of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

I'm not making this up or getting it from some wild-eyed website of crackpot info: this is the legislative and court record. It's the truth, plain and simple.

[Charger]

[Typhon]

^^^^^^

[Jack the Stripper]

Just leaving this here for interest sake given his history and standing in the metal world and that he’s now found himself on the FBI’s most wanted list. I’m not condoning or agreeing with his actions.

[Typhon]

^^^^^^
I hear that.  The government can't continue to step on our liberties and expect the people to just keep on taking it.   

[Jack the Stripper]

So it seems Schaffer has now been arrested after turning himself in and is facing up to 6 charges
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/iced-earths-jon-schaffer-arrested-for-role-in-capitol-riot/