I Guess This is More for KDC Than Anyone

[Vyn]

Over the past few years, I've been reading articles here and there and seeing the odd video now and again decrying the lamentable state of British policing and how topsy-turvy it's all become. Just now, I watched a video where a guy was in public, among a lot of people, talking to a few other people about the Tottenheim football team. He used the phrase "Yip Army" or something to that effect, which seems to be the commonly used phrase that fans of the team use to refer to themselves. I don't know if that's true or not, but what happened was that about six police officers suddenly showed up and arrested the guy for using that phrase. He was stunned, but the police were not moved.
So, a lot of things like that seem to be going on - is that true? A recent story told of a man who mouthed off to a Sikh guy and the Sikh pulled out his 8" dagger and stabbed him five times in the chest. The police arrested the guy that got stabbed, mocked him as he pleaded for medical help, and he died while sitting there cuffed up. Nothing was done to the Sikh guy because they are allowed to carry big ass daggers for religious reasons.
True? Bullshit? Is this propaganda? Or are things really that stupid?

Could I spiin up a religion that has as a core belief that I must carry a 1911 style .45 semi-automatic pistol and use it to kill at least one man per month in order to fulfill my religious obligations, and that would be cool in the UK now? I mean, if one group can tote 8" daggers around while blades are illegal for everyone else, why not?

It all seems so far-fetched. I recognize that one-off incidents of nonsense happen, but this is being portrayed as Standard Operating Procedure in the UK now, and I'm wondering if that is actually the case?

[Thelemech]

I would reply to this thread but up here in Canada my ass might end up in a re-education camp 

First it comes to the UK and then to Canada.
After it seeps into California then to the rest of the states

Like the Cream song I support the left but I am leaning to the right

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

Believe me that stabbing has been the headlines here for the last ten days or so.

1) The incident happened a while ago but it all became news worthy recently when the Sikh lad was sentenced to life imprisonment for murdering the Jewish lad. It was learnt during the trial that when the police arrived on the scene the Sikh told police that he had been racially abused by the guy he attacked. Not knowing any better the police handcuffed him even though he was saying he had been stabbed and couldn't breathe and all that... and died while he was cuffed. I get the impression the police didn't check him out too closely because sure they would seen the blood!!

2) Yes, Sikhs can carry small 3 inch knives which need to be displayed openly. This killer had an 8 inch blade (concealed or on show I don't know). This allowance is going to be reconsidered after this incident.

3) The Uk has it's share of idiot police like any where does, though I'm not sure we're any worse than elsewhere.

4) What I would say is the UK police is underfunded and under manned and often the cry of "Why are there no visible police on our streets?" is heard. I would suggest that in town centres CCTV is very much doing the work of the "bobby on the beat"!

[Vyn]

@Thel: Hahaha, please don't get re-educated

@KDC: Thanks for the insight. That paints a different picture than is being portrayed in certain quarters here in the USofA. The article I read about the stabbing did not mention that the Sikh guy ended up going to prison for life - it gave the impression he was allowed to just go on about his life. Which, in a way, he is. Just with certain constraints in place now lol

Thanks again!

[Vyn]

Have an impossible time sleeping tonight, so to the internet I go! I just finished watching the statement Henry Nowak's father made just after they sentenced the murderer to prison. I thought it was a very well stated commentary, and I appreciated his circumspect approach to the ordeal, even as he roasted the on-scene police officers' actions at one point. But damn, his family's pain radiated right through the video and out of my monitor. No histrionics, no outsized displays of grief. Rather, a father, sister, and mother maintaining the decorum called for by the context of their circumstance the best they can, all the while unable to mask the pain they are feeling. Real, down in the soul kind of pain.

I am glad I got caught up in that story a bit. Enough to where I found that video. Because as I walk down my own grief-laden path, I can look at those people and recognize that, as far as such things go, I have it E-A-S-Y. It doesn't hurt any less, but I know I'll get through it and move forward from it. The Nowak family will too, but they have such a long way to go. I wish them the best as they deal with their loss. A loss that was a surprise. A loss that no one anticipated or even ever considered. A loss that effects each of them differently per the nature of their relation to Henry, but of the same magnitude. And I cannot imagine...

[Zzzptm]

Sikhism requires the carrying of the blade as a personal act of faith. However, it does not need to be a usable blade, let alone 8". It's OK to substitute what constitutes a resemblance of a blade in areas of high security or where a person simply doesn't want to be carrying a weapon. I had Sikh students who went that route and were fine in their faith.

I also know that they're taught that they should defend themselves, but that responses should not be escalations. Then again, if it had happened in Florida, with its laws and all, it could have come off as justifiable self-defense.

For the first one, Tottenham has a connection with that phrase, as they historically had a large number of Jewish supporters. But the phrase is offensive and just as Washington and Cleveland said farewell to their team names, the club is asking folks to move on from that phrase: https://www.timesofisrael.com/uks-tottenham-soccer-club-no-longer-wants-fan-nickname-offensive-to-jews/

[Typhon]

I read the murderer got 21 years, not life.  So I don't know which is correct.

As far as this being able to carry a dagger when others can't, I feel that you can believe in whatever superstitious nonsense you want to.  But if your belief conflicts with the law of the land, then the law of the land has priority.

[Charger]

As far as this being able to carry a dagger when others can't, I feel that you can believe in whatever superstitious nonsense you want to.  But if your belief conflicts with the law of the land, then the law of the land has priority.

I tend to agree with that. Laws of the nation MUST come first to any religion...and it needs to be religion that adjusts not the law.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

@Typhon.

It was a life sentence but he won't be considered for parole until he has done a minimum of 21 years.

[Vyn]

For the first one, Tottenham has a connection with that phrase, as they historically had a large number of Jewish supporters. But the phrase is offensive and just as Washington and Cleveland said farewell to their team names, the club is asking folks to move on from that phrase: https://www.timesofisrael.com/uks-tottenham-soccer-club-no-longer-wants-fan-nickname-offensive-to-jews/

That makes sense.

The KC Chiefs fans, for decades, have done this "tomahawk chop" group thing. It includes moving one arm like you are swinging a tomahawk, while chanting a wordless melody. Several years ago, the team started asking them to stop, similar it seems to what Tottenham is doing with that phrase.

KC fans roundly ignored the team's request, and after a season or two, the team just stopped bringing it up. Thankfully no one in KC has ever been arrested for performing that expression of engagement, completely dissimilar to what happens to fans of Tottenham using "the phrase" while in the UK. Speak the words, go to jail.

That would be a good marketing slogan the police in the UK should start using. Put it on placards, the sides of busses, send mailers to everyone. Hand out business cards with the slogan. The best part, it's applicable to any combination of words that the UK government decides rise to the level where depriving one of their liberty is warranted. Saves money on marketing mats. It's a win-win across the board!

[Zzzptm]

Well, at least we've gotten most of the US' sports-related offensiveness whittled down to team names and the odd crowd chant. Once upon a time, animals received some dubious treatment, all in the name of football.

This is Baylor University's bear mascot having a Dr Pepper back in 1971...

[Zzzptm]

Yeah, the things that matter most are the lands and their rights, along with water rights. And as for terminology, I know a lot of Indians that are Indians. Adding syllables always signifies that a major screw job is coming, like the extra beats means the problems are being handled and we don't need to worry. Like what happened when bums became homeless and then unhoused persons. We need to use simple words without hate so we can wrap our heads around things like problems that poor people have. Socioeconomically disadvantaged people live in another galaxy, for all we can tell, but I know where the poor folks in my area are, and I can help them out.

And for the tribe name, even those can be loaded, especially if the name is some other tribe's word for "mother-raping weak-ass possum-kissers" or some such insult. But whatever someone wants to be called, that's what I'll respect.

[Typhon]

@Typhon.

It was a life sentence but he won't be considered for parole until he has done a minimum of 21 years.

Good to know.

@Vyn:   I have to agree with your take on the Indian situation.  They do not care about team names.  The only people who do, are those who's hobby it is to be offended by everything, even though it has nothing to do with their own heritage.   

@Zzzptm:  Sorry, but my friends and I still say the Washington Redskins.  Not because of any negativity, but for the same reason we still say the San Diego Chargers.  Its just been too many years that way and it ain't going to change now.   

[Vyn]

Well crap, I tried to split the topic and it didn't split how I wanted, lol.

And Z I agree about the additional syllable theory. Folks spending time worrying about and working on and spending money getting the word out about things that have zero impact on whatever the situation is. "We care so much here is a nice new word to describe you, that should make you feel much better while you're still watching your children starve."

[Zzzptm]

@Zzzptm:  Sorry, but my friends and I still say the Washington Redskins.  Not because of any negativity, but for the same reason we still say the San Diego Chargers.  Its just been too many years that way and it ain't going to change now.   

I don't blame ya or take umbrage there. I knew a massive Redskins fan, he was one of the Question Leads for AP Economics grading that I did for 7 years. When we had our end-of-the-week social, he would bellow out the Washington Football Redskins fight song as part of the festivities. Younger folks want to say "Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons", but "Redskins" still has a nice two-syllable ring to it.

And I'm still wanting there to be a San Diego Chargers, as well. Hell, I still want a St. Louis Cardinals football team and a Houston Oilers.