Line Up Change = GOOD!

[Charger]

So I was pondering...We haven't had a good conversation topic for a while so I thought I'd give this a try...

There have been a lot of line up changes in bands that I really like and some of those line up changes have actually been for the better...whether it's just because the creativity and drive in the band was gone with the original line up (Black Sabbath) or if simply the original line up wasn't up to par at all (Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Anthrax) singer wise atleast.

What bands do you consider benefitted a lot from a line up change?

Let's start with original line ups and move on from that.

For me I think there are maybe three bands that benefitted the most from moving on from the original line up but for different reasons.

Black Sabbath (Because the creativity and power of the band was long gone resulting in two horrible albums and poor tours)

Deep Purple (Because the original line up just simply wasn't very good...their musical direction was bit all over the place and the singer wasn't cutting it)

Iron Maiden (Musically they had the chops but vocally the band was far from the excellence of the music, also the vocal style didn't always fit the music)


Yes the main thing with these bands is the change of singers...but it doesn't have to be all about singers...

[Zzzptm]

DP Mk 1 was a good band, but not a great one, and that's why Rod Evans had to go. Overall, we traded covers of Hush and Kentucky Woman in exchange for Child in Time and Highway Star. WIN

Black Sabbath... yeah, that band had run things in the ground after Sabotage. And, to be honest, Ozzy needed to do something new to get his spirit back into the music. Him leaving Black Sabbath was vital for his career.

Iron Maiden... Paul DiAnno was more than a musical drag on the band, he wasn't right for their touring and performance demands.

Now some others...

Metallica: thank you for booting Dave Mustaine. Megadeth has been much more consistent in its output as a band than Metallica. But after losing Cliff Burton, an unavoidable thing, sadly, I don't think I've enjoyed them as much.

Motorhead: Larry Wallis was a fun guy, but the wrong guitarist for the band. Glad they got Fast Eddie Clarke in his place.

Grand Funk: Adding Craig Frost didn't do much of anything... they benefited more from cutting ties with their manager than from adding a keys player.

Mountain: Speaking of disposable keyboard guys, Steve Knight's departure made nary a difference in the band's overall sound.

[Ted Sallis]

I basically agree with everything in Charger's post and what Zzzptm stated about all of the Groups in his post except Grand Funk and Mountain - I'm not really familiar with them so I can't really judge the changes he mentioned.  To add:

I think Ozzy departing from Sabbath in 1979 turned out to be best for both camps.  They both came back successful and with stellar music.

DP Mark I is my favourite lineup next to Mark II.  Yes, the original lineup did quite a few covers on their 1st 2 albums and it's true that they couldn't come close to matching the bulk of the next incarnation's original material.

Yes, Paul Di'anno wasn't ambitious like the other Members of Maiden, therefore they had to get another singer to continue to grow, both creatively with their songs and popularity wise, particularly by touring more, thereby expanding their exposure.

Metallica benefited greatly from replacing Dave Mustaine with Kirk Hammett, writing and recording their 2 best albums (RTL and MOP).  Yes, the loss of Cliff was a grave tragedy, but kudos to the Group for recovering as best they could and for scaling unbelievable heights in the aftermath.

Ted

[Zzzptm]

Oooh, Steely Dan... so glad Donald Fagen got over his stage anxiety and took over the lead vocals. The other guy was just the wrong sound for the kind of music they were writing.

Rainbow... sad to see the rest of Elf get fired, but Rainbow Rising is a massive album, thanks in large part to the stellar performers on it.

Spinal Tap... that first drummer was a loser. So was the second. Same for the third through 27th drummers...

Uriah Heep... they went through a few bassists before they got Gary Thain, who made a massive difference in his playing. After he left, the band started to drift, even though the rest of the gang was still there.

Van Halen... nope. I never liked them as much with Sammy Hagar as I did with Diamond Dave.

Beatles... Ringo was the right drummer to go with, absolutely. Never looked back after getting that puzzle piece in place.

The Yardbirds... I like their stuff with Jeff Beck more than their stuff with Eric Clapton, I'd say the change did them good.

Small Faces --> Faces ... which do I like better? It's the Rod Steward - Ron Wood combo that does it for me more than Jimmy Marriott.

Fleetwood Mac... more commercially successful with their changes, but I like the blusier old stuff with Peter Green more.

Genesis... I couldn't stand their work with Peter Gabriel, but I can mildly tolerate the Phil Collins-led version. Win?

Just had a storm take out my electricity, so I'll submit this and be glad my Internet is on battery backup for another hour.

[Charger]

Yes Rainbow most certainly changed for the better after the line-up change. The Elf guys just weren't quite as good as the guys that followed.


This might be bit controversial but I'll add Exodus...Musically Bonded By Blood is a great album but Paul Baloff's vocals are horrible...I just can't get into them at all, in fact the vocals are so bad it's hard to even listen to the album....So the change to Zetro was a more than welcomed one for me.


Metallica is bit of a borderline call though...sure Dave wrote a bunch of stuff for Kill 'Em All but he did not appear on the album...so one might argue that the first recorded line up for Metallica was with Hammett...But I do agree that it was better for everyone that Dave got fired because we got Megadeth that indeed has been the more consistant and better band over the years.

And if we go by that Metallica logic then I guess we could go with Judas Priest as well...Al Atkins' departure and Rob Halford's entry was huge for the band as well as Glenn Tipton's ofcoruse....however the early years were pretty turbulent as far as the drummer position goes so one can't say it was a very steady line-up until the guy who liked touching boys came into the fold.

[Zzzptm]

Learn something every day, did not know Priest didn't start with Halford. In that case, genius move going with him as the singer.

Pink Floyd wasn't all that different before/after Syd Barrett left. Both him and David Gilmour played very well and the band was totally psychedelic throughout.

Santana: I like their first 3 albums best, with Gregg Rolie singing. I also like Journey's first 3 albums, again with Gregg Rolie. What's this with bands deciding they don't want Gregg Rolie no more? Mistake to lose him.

Yes: before Steve Howe, I don't know any of their stuff. After Steve Howe, oh yeah, I know Yes songs.

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

Can't really argue with previous comments.

Rush: Their debut had John Rutsey on drums, the sound was more like Led Zeppelin than their later sound. He left due to ill health that meant he was unable to tour greatly (he died in 2008). He was replaced by Neil Peart who brought lyrics as well as incredible drum ability and the rest, as they say, is history!

[Zzzptm]

Rutsey was all right, but Peart... definition of game-changer!

[Charger]

Learn something every day, did not know Priest didn't start with Halford. In that case, genius move going with him as the singer.

Wow...that was quite the hole in your basic heavy metal knowlage!

 

 


But it appears I had a bit of a hole in my knowlage as well as I did not know Peart wasn't the original drummer of Rush! So there we go...this place always provides something new!

[Thelemech]

Anthrax - replacing Neil Turbin with the incredible Joey Belladonna was the best decision in East Coast Thrash Metal.

Black Sabbath - One incredible showman and distinct singer in Ozzy replaced by another incredible showman and arguably an even just as a distinct singer in Ronnie James Dio. Oh, and I love Born again with Gillan, another great singer, and performer.

Iron Maiden - As much as I genuinely love Paul Di'Anno on the debut and Killers the change to the greatest Heavy Metal singer of all time Bruce Dickinson, was more than warranted. Those first five albums with Dickinson I would put up against any band's run of greatness.

Metallica and Megadeth have an incredible amount of great material and I believe that it was perfect for Dave Mustaine to be given his band - just look at all the great music we have from both bands. I also like the addition to Metallica by Dave's replacement Kirk Hammett and even though many say he is not that great - I love his contributions to albums like Ride The Lightning and Master Of Puppets.

AC/DC - Bon Scott replacing Dave Evans was and is one of the crucial changes that needed to happen to this band. Though I prefer Scott to Brian Johnson, Brian is damn good in his own right. So a pretty high bar set by both of their better-known frontmen.

Death - Chuck Schuldiner taking control over the embryonic form of Death and also becoming the main singer made that band one of the greatest in Heavy Metal history.

Jethro Tull - Martin Barre taking over from Mick Abrahams on guitar was that one element lacking in the early period of the band's output. Barre was more technical and had a love of playing Progressive Rock. He also pushed Ian Anderson to be even more creative.

That is a few that I can think of at the moment. I will add more later.

[Zzzptm]

^ Good call on the Jethro Tull. Mick Abrahams could play well, but they were just another jazz-blues combo on their first album.

[Scott]

Deep Purple (Because the original line up just simply wasn't very good...their musical direction was bit all over the place and the singer wasn't cutting it)

Aside from the aforementioned here, I'm glad the original lineup went bust. Without that we'd not have gotten Captain Beyond. Rod Evans was better suited for that band IMO (until he disappeared anyway).

[Zzzptm]

Indeed. I *LOVE* Captain Beyond, some great stuff on those first 2 albums of theirs.