The Community
ROCK AND ROLL! => Black Sabbath => All Other Eras => Topic started by: KiloDeltaCharlie on January 29, 2021, 03:37:36 PM
-
The first of the Tony Martin Albums is Eternal Idol, originally recorded by Ray Gillen, and subsequently re-recorded by Tony in just a few days after Ray Gillen departed. Whilst Tony's vocals are fine I feel its not really his album as he's singing someone elses vocal melodies. It's a minor issue but I felt it worth mentioning.
============
The first track on the album is The Shining. A homage to the Stephen King Book/Film of the same name. I like this track, nice guitars from Tony, the bass is good too. It might have been better elsewhere on the album rather than the opener, but not a biggie.
-
I remember back in 1987, I was living in Austin, TX, and going through the vinyl at my local indie record store. They had a really good metal section and, even better, it was between the campus bus stop and where I usually parked my car. Waterloo Records, that's the name of the place. Good times.
Anyway, I see this album in there. I had no idea who Tony Martin was, but I recognized Tony Iommi and Bob Daisley, so I figured I'd give it a go. After letdowns from Live Evil, Born Again, and Seventh Star, I was considering this to be the last chance for the band.
This track, while it didn't blow me away, did convince me to give the whole album a fair listen with an open mind. I liked Martin's style of singing and thought he was a better fit as a metal singer than Hughes. The bass sound was great and resonant, it really came together well.
-
It’s a good point you raise about being Ray Gillens melodies Kilo, probably explains why I can tolerate this album much more than the two that followed. In saying that I do think Martins vocals are better suited than Gillen’s but neither were suited to Tonys doomier side.
The Shining kicks things off in classic Iommi style, softening the listener up with some softer melodic playing before launching into a pulverising heavy hit of doom. The verse melody/singing is a little predictable & cheesy but the chorus is strong and uplifting. The mid section melodic breakdown is very Ozzy-esque so I wonder if Bob Daisley came up with that arrangement?
I think it’s a solid song with a nice blend of heavy & melodic playing from Tony and a strong catchy chorus but nothing all that great by Sabbath’s classic standards.
-
(I hoped Charger might have joined us :( )
The second track is Ancient Warrior. I always felt it had a similar vibe to the first track. It's an okay song nothing wrong with it... but it just doesn't seem to go anywhere. Solid but nothing exceptional.
-
Oh cock. You finished with the seventh star already...okay.
Well the Eternal Idol is my least favourite of the Martin-era albums mainly cause it didn't really feature that much of a band setting either and it tends to feel bit of a mishmash really...that being said it does have some good tracks.
Reportedly Bob Daisley wrote most of the lyrics because Ray Gillen wasn't really up to the task. Tony himself was never much of a lyricist either and Bob again was well known for his lyrical work with Ozzy.
Ray had a good enough voice but wasn't really a good fit for Sabbath sounding stuff anyways so his departure was a good choice for all, especially since it opened the door Tony Martin who was not only a great singer but a fantastic lyricist as well. But ofcourse not on this album as it was completed before he joined. So he was just pretty much forced to sing over Ray's vocals which was a real shame too as Tony had he had the time probably would have come up with much better and less 80s sounding melodies.
The Shining is the crown jewel of the album for sure. A brilliant track that echoes back to the old Sabbath days with it's tempo changes and captures some of the mystique of the Dio-era.
In fact I'd go as far as say that along with Headless Cross, I Witness and Anno Mundi this is the best track that came outside of the Ozzy or Ronnie albums...heck and better than some tracks on those albums too.
There's a lot going on in the song and honestly it could have been a bit longer even with a bigger middle section and a longer solo. But as it is it still stands head and shoulder over anything else on this album and classic in it's own right.
If there is one negative thing about the song it is that it's the opener...a faster song like Glory Ride or Born To Lose might have been a better choice.
-
Ancient Warrior is just an ok song. Cool opening but then becomes a little pedestrian and plods along after that. The chorus is a bit cheesy as well not helped by Martin’s singing, he actually doesn’t sound to dissimilar to Gillen on this track. Lots a good little ideas on this track that don’t amount to much when thrown together. Nice solo from Tony.
-
Track 3 is Hard Life to Love. An uptempo rocker with a catchy riff, again vocals are solid but not quite on it 100%, another where given more time Martin might have been able to perfect. Overall it's a good effort.
-
Don’t have a lot to add about Hard Life To Love. Just a solid straight ahead rocker with a catchy riff and melody. This along with many songs from the Martin era wouldn’t sound out of place on Seventh Star. Good solo again from Tony.
-
Ancient Warrior is a song that has potential in that rather different yet good main riff, but it just lacks punch. Had the riff been somewhat heavier ie lower tuning and the bass been bit more prominent along with a heavier drum sound it could have been a great mini epic.
Now it sounds maybe bit too thin and bit too dare I say it...80s sounding.
The middle section saves a lot though with that eastern mystical vibe in solo, which is again very un-Iommi like.
The vocal melody is bit bland too...don't know how much of the melodies were written by Gillen or Daisley but this is a weak one regardless and again makes me wish Tony would have had enough time to re-work it as he had much much better melody sense anyways as clearly proven on the later albums.
Since I'm one behind I'll do Hard Life To Love as well here.
The song starts off with a great groovy riff but again suffers a bit from being too thin. In this case though that's more of a production issue rather than tuning issue I think.
There are some nice tempo changes going on and this also features a bit better vocal melody as well.
But for a faster song to clock in at 5 minutes is maybe a tad bit too long...and the solo sounds really odd. The tuning on that is way off I think..sounds so thin and metallic. Again very un-Iommi-like.
It's bit all over the place this song...but still a decent one...
-
Ancient Warrior for me is perhaps too slow as the follow-up for The Shining, but it's still an all right enough track to keep me around. There's a nice solo in the middle that adds a dash of flavor, but overall this isn't my main bag.
Hard Life to Love, however, is where I really sit up and take notice. I like the fast stuff, and this certainly delivers in that category. The galloping guitar in the middle wins me over, every time. The solo makes me fire up my air guitar to jam along with. It definitely has more cowbell, this song! I have memories associated with the tune, as well, from a trip I took to San Antonio with my wife a few months after we got married in early 1988, so it's got a special place in my heart. Not as special as Lost Forever, but still special.
-
Side One concludes with Glory Ride. This has always been one of the better tracks on the album, but its never quite gelled with me, there's something which doesn't quite work and I have to say it may be the vocal melody, but there's nothing obviously wrong with them. A good riff though, and overall well performed.
-
Glory Ride is a close second to Hard Life to Love for my fave track on side 1. I especially love the acoustic guitar touches in the bridge part.
-
Glory Ride has a nice groovy riff, but it again lacks punch and heaviness.
I'd disagree with KDC though about the vocal melody, I think it's among the better ones on the album. Yes it's bit simple but not overly so.
The tempo change on the middle section doesn't really work with the vocals...had it just been an instrumental bit it might have worked better.
Drumming is waaay to basic on this one as well.
-
Solid riff to open Glory Ride. The vocal melody is decent as well with a nice chorus but I do prefer Ray Gillen singing this one. Solo absolutely rips on this track. Good song.
-
Opening Side 2 is Born To Lose. One of my (if not my) favourite tracks on the album. A nice short-ish uptemp rocker, I like the riff and the solo. The vocals are good (but I could do without the "er-er, er-er" bits!). I really like this song in the same way I liked Turn to Stone on 7th Star they have a similar vibe.
-
Born to Lose kicks off side 2 and makes a great opening for my favorite side of my favorite Martin-era album. Great sound in the guitar solo. I'll be the second to say, "uptempo rocker" in describing the tune. :smug:
-
Born To Lose is a great track! A real nice uptempo rocker with a great riff.
But it is the production again that brings this down too with it's too thin sound.
But still surely one of the most enjoyable songs on the album!
-
Born To Lose is a great track! A real nice uptempo rocker with a great riff.
But it is the production again that brings this down too with it's too thin sound.
But still surely one of the most enjoyable songs on the album!
This is why, when I ripped the album to MP3, I worked at upping the bass sound, and the tracks totally came into their own with that adjustment, especially Lost Forever.
-
Next up we Nightmare, the track which includes some remnants of Ray's original input with the laughing sounds.
It's a strange song... it starts with the tinkly sound which doesn't really seem to be a part of the song at all! The song itself starts slow and doomy, and then speeds up halfway in which is nice. I like the vocals on this one, the riff is good but there doesn't really seem to be much of a solo from Tony. I quite like the song even though it doesn't really stand out!
-
A lot to like about Born To Lose. Fast and catchy with a good riff and vocal melody but the “chasing shadows in the dark” line that gets repeated throughout is lame as shit and brings the song down for me. I have little doubt Gillen came up with that line, came up with similar cheesy lyrics in Badlands.
-
Moving onto Nightmare, this is actually one of my favourites tracks if not favourite track from the album. Good strong opening with a heavy groove that moves the song along nicely. Then Tony introduces a faster mid song riff over some sinister laughing that takes the song into an entirely new and aggressive direction. Love the chorus in this section, it’s memorable and catchy. The whole song is just very well put together and entertaining. It’s also the sort of song that suits Tony Martin’s style much better as he just doesn’t have the character in his voice to pull off the real doomy stuff.
-
Nightmare is another good track. Not quite up there with the Shining or the title track but still a great number.
The song builds up nicely and has some great guitar work from Iommi...vocal melody here is also on the better side, although again I believe had Tony been given the chance to re-do this one he could have elevated it to another level.
Again though the lack of punch on the production side is what brings this down.
This is why, when I ripped the album to MP3, I worked at upping the bass sound, and the tracks totally came into their own with that adjustment, especially Lost Forever.
Hmmm...that might actually be worth a test.
-
Slow start to Nightmare, but when we get to 2 minutes in and Ray Gillen's laugh, we start speeding downhill on a mountain road. It's a simple set of chords that Iommi plays, but they set that emotional palette that gets the song just enough doom in the mix.
***
When I did the rip, I know I upped the bass levels and added just a small touch of room echo - just a touch - so I could get a nice "woooooommm" effect in the bass tones. I was careful with compression, only doing a dab of that, as well, to help bring the bass up in the mix.
-
Next up we have the instrumental Scarlet Pimpernel. This is quite possibly my favourite short accoustic song in the Sabbath catalogue. I might even go so far as to suggest it could do with being a little longer!
-
I’ve always enjoyed Tony’s little acoustic pieces but Scarlet Pimpernel is one that’s never done anything for me. Probably my least favourite actually.
-
I never much though anything of Scarlet Pumpernickel but after listening to it couple of times yesterday I have to say I found myself enjoying it quite a bit...
So as it stands now I'd put it on second place right after Embryo and bit before Orchid. It's got a nice melody, it's not too long and it works as an independed tune as well not just an intro.
-
Last but one is Lost Forever. I had forgotten how fast this song is, it has a great riff and the vocals are spot on. A very good effort, one of the best on the album.
-
LOST FOREVER!!!
:headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:
One of my fave tracks by anyone, ever. Best on the album. Especially with more bass in it. As you can see, I'm quite enthusiastic about it... :smug:
-
Lost Forever is a decent fast rocker. The riff reminds me of something of Born Again, both in style and sound. The vocal melody is ok, Gillen and Martin sound very alike in tone on this track. However there is something that holds it back from being an A league fast rocker in the Sabbath catalogue that I can’t quite put my finger on. Maybe it’s just a little too simplistic and not memorable enough or something. Would’ve liked Martin to sing with more grit on it also. Solo is good but doesn’t transition in and out as good as others on this album. Good song but not all that great or memorable.
-
Lost Forever has a great fast riff and a great vocal melody but again this is one of the songs that I wish Tony would have reworked the vocals again a bit. Could have used a bit heavier delivery. Honestly this is a song that would have suited Ronnie quite well I think. He would have added a nice heavier layer.
Lyrically this is bit closer to "classic" Sabbath as well.
Thin production and the overlong fade out bring this one down a bit, but surely a good track non the less.
-
The closing track is the title track Eternal Idol. A slow burner of a song, gentle vocals which suddenly burst with energy. It builds up momentum and energy before returning to the slowness from the beginning for a nother verse and then the energy returns for the final section with the really good uptempo final verse.
I do like this song, with interesting speed change typical of earlier albums. I do think returning to the ultra slowness towards the end was unnecessary, but the final verse is possibly my favourite part of the album. Martin would return to that style of delivery again in later albums.
-
Eternal Idol is hands down the second best track on the album. It has that classic Sabbath feel with the slow intro that leads into a doomy guitar riff with the drums only to be followed by a slower part again with eery vocals.
The vocal melody is among the best ones too. All in all this is probably the most classic Sabbath sounding song on the entire album. And there is a strong ammount of Ronnie-like delivery in Tony's vocals...This is a song that I could easily see Ronnie singing as well.
But as with most of this album this too desperately needs a remix to add it some of that depth that the entire album is lacking.
With better production and allowing Tony to rework the vocal melodies and some of the lyrics this album could have been great. As it stands now it seems bit rushed and unfinished.
I'd rank the songs
1. The Shining
2. Eternal Idol
3. Born To Lose
4. Nightmare
5. Scarlet Pumpernickel
6. Lost Forever
7. Glory Ride
8. Hard Life To Love
9. Ancient Warrior
-
The title track is a bit of a mixed bag for me. It does have a lot more of that classic Sabbath doomy feel to it which is welcome but it drags too much and just doesn’t bring you in and take you on the journey you expect or want it to. The song would’ve really benefited with a tempo change or even a long extended guitar solo to break it up. Gillen’s original vocal melody is fine for the song but neither him or Tony Martin are suited or sound authentic singing over doom. Unfortunately this was a constant for Tony Martin over the next couple of albums. Good song but with some tweaks it could’ve been a great song.
Have to say this is a pretty decent and entertaining album overall. Tony Iommi’s guitar work is solid as always and it does have a bit more of that Sabbathy familiarity to it than Seventh Star did but it’s not an album that keeps me wanting to come back to it time and time again like Sabbath’s previous albums do. Both Bob and Ray did a good job at handling the lyrics & vocal melodies respectively, much less cheesy and predictable to what Tony Martin would bring on the next 2 releases. I’ll also add that I don’t have much an issue on the production side of things, it’s just a product of its time and unless it’s outright abysmal like Born Again or Forbidden would prefer it left alone.
Overall Rating 6.5/10
Track Rankings
1. Nightmare
2. The Shining
3. Lost Forever
4. Eternal Idol
5. Glory Ride
6. Ancient Warrior
6. Hard Life to Love
6. Born to Lose
9. Scarlet Pimpernel
-
It's a solid album, no really bad tracks but also nothing truly great. My ranking is:
1. Born to Lose
2. Lost Forever
3= Nightmare
3= Eternal Idol
5. Scarlet Pimpernel
6= The Shining
6= Glory Ride
8= A Hard Life to Love
8= Ancient Warrior
-
The last track is a bit slow for my liking, but I still love the album overall. Outside the Ozzy/Dio releases, this one is my favorite, and I certainly do prefer it to the lesser stars in those firmaments.