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ROCK AND ROLL! => All Them Other Guys => Topic started by: Zzzptm on December 13, 2019, 02:58:33 PM
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JtS started this idea, so I'm going to keep it going in a thread.
Assuming legal issues like name ownership, publishing, recording contracts, fulfilling outstanding tour dates, and so forth were all resolved to allow Page to be to Led Zeppelin as Tony Iommi is to Black Sabbath, what could have been?
Reunions would still be just as possible and likely as with Sabbath - given that Bill Ward isn't really part of the most recent rounds of reunion tours, the absence of Bonham is paralleled there.
But what about the post-1980 band? Plant was already moving in a pop direction. Page's later work, though, shows a bluesy edge and a willingness to keep exploring music he liked without deep concerns about marketability. His work with The Firm may be seen as commercial, but it had some great moments on the first album. His solo album and work with Roy Harper show that he was comfortable both in heavy blues and experimental/art rock through the 80s. Page's work with David Coverdale, again, shows how he was essentially true to the Zeppelin sound: warmed-up blues numbers with heavy, heavy instrumentation.
So who would the sidemen be in a post-Plant/Jones/Bonham version of Led Zeppelin?
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For vocals, Page has always favored bluesy belters. Plant is solo, Paul Rodgers is still in Bad Company, David Coverdale is enjoying a DP mini-reunion in Whitesnake, Gillan is still trying to have a go of big name success in Gillan, so who's left?
Chris Farlowe.
Farlowe is one of the most underrated singers in rock, and he was available in 1980. He sang on three tracks on Page's Outrider album, and his vocal strength makes me forget that it's a Page solo album, not a Farlowe vehicle. Try out "Hummingbird", if you haven't heard it, or haven't heard it in a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihTBfdC0kc4
Also worth checking out would be "Prison Blues" and "Blues Anthem". Farlowe can deliver the goods, and his history as a solo artist, with Colosseum, and with Atomic Rooster makes him a reasonable kind of "why didn't *I* think of that?" kind of candidate for vocals.
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For bass... well, Page would need a steady, bluesy hand. Not necessarily Tony Franklin, who sounds too jazzy for a hard blues effort. ELP had just broken up, but would Page have worked well with Greg Lake, particularly if vocal duties were predominantly Farlowe's area? I'll work out the drummer while I think some more on the bassist...
No, wait, I figured them both out at the same time!
For bassist, Overend Watts. On drums, his Mott bandmate Dale "Buffin" Griffin. Two of the most solid rhythm men in rock, and British Lions was well on its way to foundering in 1980. If Page had given them the call, they would have shown up and done amazing work.
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No doubt the singer would've been the biggest make or break decision in the whole scenario. As much as Bonham and John Paul Jones were vital cogs in the Zeppelin machine the drummer and bassist are always seen as the most replaceable, especially in this day and age and particularly drummers.
I think David Coverdale would've been the most logical and best chance for it to work and he probably would've dropped Whitesnake in a heart beat for a chance to be in one of the biggest and most successful rock bands of all time. He dropped Whitesnake just after their peak(popularity wise) for a chance to work with Page so I have no doubt he would've dropped them back in 1980.
Plant had such an iconic and distinguishable voice it's hard to fathom anyone else that didn't have a likeness to Plants singing actually working unless it was an established superstar like Freddie Mercury who could also pull off those songs with his vocal range. Whether a Plant clone like Coverdale would've been accepted back then is another thing though, unlike today where it seems getting a singer that sounds like the original or most recognised singer seems to be all the rage and the best way forward for bands to continue on without the original or band defining singer.
I wonder how Ronnie would've turned out?
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I wonder how Ronnie would've turned out?
Interesting... and would Cozy Powell have gone over to Zeppelin, as opposed to a Dio solo effort?
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Yeah Cozy would've been a great choice of coarse and ended up joining Whitesnake too.
What if Glenn Hughes had've joined and Zeppelin became just a threesome? :drama:
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Yeah Cozy would've been a great choice of coarse and ended up joining Whitesnake too.
What if Glenn Hughes had've joined and Zeppelin became just a threesome? :drama:
Hughes has a strong voice. But in 1980... I think him and Page would have been really bad for each other, as far as drugs go. Too much coke and too much smoke, as Lynyrd Skynyrd once said...
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^^True, but given the ultimatum, drugs or sing for Zeppelin?
Here's a little snippet of what it might have been like if Freddie had've teamed up with Jimmy
As I said earlier Freddie had the range and ability to pull it off no doubt and would've added real star power to make it more credible and accepting. But not so sure it would've worked with the writing though. Jimmy could've handled most of the music as usual but how would've Freddie's writing style gelled with Page?
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I wonder how Ronnie would've turned out?
While it's not downright terrible(the band sounds quite good) Ronnie just doesn't work for me, even moreso than singing Ozzy era Sabbath.
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Yeah, Dio Zeppelin not automatically a good thing. Dio's got a great voice, but it doesn't fit for songs like that. He does better when he can stretch out the vowels. "Black Dog" has a clipped style, and it's not lyrical enough for Dio. Something like "Mistreated", though has Dio at his bluesy best.
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Mercury sounds great, and he's got the chops to pull off tunes like "Black Dog", but would he have left Queen when it was still around the top of the charts, to go with something that fans might react violently against?
Here's Hughes doing Zeppelin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6DVJngrCc0
And I bet that version doesn't make any new Hughes fans. :smug:
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I think it would have amounted to the same degeneracy that occurred in Sabbath once Ozzy left. Do not get me wrong I love Dio and Gillan in Sabbath and I have a soft spot for Martin but there was a continued drop in quality after the original band fell apart IMHO.
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Honestly Zep was never in par with Sabbath...or Purple...or Rainbow or even Blue Öyster Cult.
So what ever degeneration might have happened to Sabbath was still better than Zep in their best.
Also I think as long as Page would have had bands to rip off from they probably would have been going on...
And as far as Ronnie goes...I doubt he would have never EVER joined Page in Zeppelin. Sabbath was a perfect fit for him...zep...not so much.
Glenn Hughes on the other hand...atleast his singing talent wouldn't have been wasted there any more than anywhere else.
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I'm more inclined to think that if Jimmy hadve decided to carry on the Zep name it would've been short lived regardless if he got an established superstar, a Plant clone or a nobody cheese ball like Tony Martin. Majority of fans just wouldn't have accepted it and treated it like a Page solo band. History has said that a band can replace an iconic or band defining singer and continue to be successful but you also have to have the rest of the original band intact to give it a chance to make it work.
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History has said that a band can replace an iconic or band defining singer and continue to be successful but you also have to have the rest of the original band intact to give it a chance to make it work.
Well this is utter bull now isn't it...?
The Mob Rules, Dehumanizer and The Devil You Know alone prove this to be utter bollocks...
Deep Purple made some of their best stuff with a single original member.
Iron Maiden proved the original lineup was nothing compared to things to come.
But ofcourse there are always those people that refuse to accept change and to them there is this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49193085241_80546c2475_z.jpg)
But there are real fans out there that are willing to see beyond one person.
Sorry about the rant but the mindless and utterly pointless and foundless dissing of Tony Martin always puts me in rant mode.
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Hey, I *like* Tony Martin era stuff! :D
The more I think about this, the more I think that Page wouldn't have kept the name "Led Zeppelin" for anything without Plant on vocals. It would just be too confining, especially if the next singer wanted to do stuff from his non-Zep past. Page would be fine playing it, but not all fans would stay fans.
DP got away with it when they brought in Gillan because most of their Mk1 success had been in the USA and Gillan got them to major UK and Europe success. They got away with it again with Coverdale because Burn was just such an epic album, especially the title track. When they brought in Bolin to play for Blackmore, the band told Bolin to do things note-for-note like Blackmore on the classic material. Bolin wasn't happy with that, and the fans weren't happy when Bolin did his own thing.
Imagining Coverdale in Zeppelin... "Right, just after Stairway, we go into Love Hunter." :wall:
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History has said that a band can replace an iconic or band defining singer and continue to be successful but you also have to have the rest of the original band intact to give it a chance to make it work.
Well this is utter bull now isn't it...?
The Mob Rules, Dehumanizer and The Devil You Know alone prove this to be utter bollocks...
Deep Purple made some of their best stuff with a single original member.
Iron Maiden proved the original lineup was nothing compared to things to come.
I think you're missing several points Charger. Heaven and Hell had 3/4 of the original band and it proved successful and accepted my most fans, even attracted new fans. Ward bailed mid tour and was replaced by Vinny who subsequently recorded the follow up with them. That lineup had already proved successful and accepted so it's not the same as the mid/late 80's when Tony Iommi was the sole remaining member which turned out unsuccessful and not accepted by most fans. Also I'm not reffering to quality of music but popularity and what passes as legit and true to fans. As I said for bands to stay successful and accepted history has told us that the original members or majority songwriting team needs to stay together when the singer is replaced. AC/DC, Sabbath, Maiden and Van Halen are the perfect examples of this.
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Yes I think was missing some points there then. Sorry.
As far as legit and true to fans go...I'll just pass on that.
Popularity yes...that's a different thing and ofcourse has nothing to do with quality of music or talent. Ofcourse the time when Sabbath was going with just Tony as the sole member popularity of classic heavy metal was declining rapidly. Thrash had taken over the heavier side of things and the ugly beast that was grunge was starting to raise it's radio friendly targeted head.
In 89-90 every classic metal band was starting to struggle. Regadless of the line up. Priest, Maiden, Dio, Purple, Sabbath. It only got worse in the 90s when Grunge and other radio friendly crap killed everything classic metal. Only bands that changed their sounds dramatically as a result (like Metallica or Anthrax or Pantera) managed to maintain some popularity or even climb higher...but the bands that wanted to stay true to heavy metal were struggling. And Sabbath was a prime example ofcourse.
How much of that was due to the line up changes and how much of the times...that's impossible to say with 100% accuracy.
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If the lineup change goes with a change in style, that's where old fans are lost. If the new direction is popular, new fans jump on board. If not, then the band goes into obscurity.
AC/DC pretty much stuck to their guns with Brian Johnson and fans were able to accept him as Bon Scott's able replacement. Not as much when Axl Rose stepped in to do tour vocals.
Van Halen became "Van Hagar" after Sammy joined, and it never was *exactly* like it was with Diamond Dave. When Hagar left, so did pretty much ALL of the fans.
Fleetwood Mac went into near-total obscurity when Buckingham and Nicks parted company.