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ROCK AND ROLL! => Deep Purple => Mk II: Gillan & Glover => Topic started by: Zzzptm on February 13, 2018, 07:28:02 PM
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So, I was watching this...
... and then, when they started without Blackmore on the stage, I was all WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
:zomgwtfbbq:
But the answer was pretty clear after Blackmore showed up and started throwing water on everyone... this was a band that, but for contractual arrangements, was broken up. The question I have is, should they have done it sooner? Like maybe only doing one reunion album and then calling it a day before they started killing each other? Or maybe *not* doing a full reunion after the JLT album, what with Blackmore and Gillan being at such odds with each other?
Or was the Mk2 reunion fraught with tension from the start?
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Was never that into the MkII reunions, so in many ways, yes.
But long after CD's had arrived i still picked up cassettes, because they were cheap. And ended up with The Battle Rages On. Which i still like listening to once in a blue moon, and we/i wouldn't have had that if they called it quits after Perfect Strangers. But there was some strange things going on at that time, esp. when they brought Turner into the fold...
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Was never that into the MkII reunions, so in many ways, yes.
But long after CD's had arrived i still picked up cassettes, because they were cheap. And ended up with The Battle Rages On. Which i still like listening to once in a blue moon, and we/i wouldn't have had that if they called it quits after Perfect Strangers. But there was some strange things going on at that time, esp. when they brought Turner into the fold...
Myself, I really can't get into TBRO... the MP3s just collect dust on my hard drive. I think I liked "Anya", but found that I can live just fine without it. I usually go for the much more cheerful Purpendicular and Abandon when I want 90s DP tunes.
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Anya is def. one of the best on the album. And the title tune. Talk About Love... Will have to revisit it...
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Anya is def. one of the best on the album. And the title tune. Talk About Love... Will have to revisit it...
But the tour that followed... that live album, Come Hell or High Water... ouch... The bootleg of Satriani playing with them in Japan is SOOOOO much better in terms of the band's vibe and having fun.
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But the tour that followed... that live album, Come Hell or High Water... ouch... The bootleg of Satriani playing with them in Japan is SOOOOO much better in terms of the band's vibe and having fun.
So i've heard from DP fanatics.
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Anya is def. one of the best on the album. And the title tune. Talk About Love... Will have to revisit it...
But the tour that followed... that live album, Come Hell or High Water... ouch... The bootleg of Satriani playing with them in Japan is SOOOOO much better in terms of the band's vibe and having fun.
Anya is brilliant, like the title track and Twist In The Tail too...
But yeah the live preformances weren't very good at all...Ritchie would have rather been counting cesspools in a medieval town that played with the band...he had no interest and no spark left in him anymore at that point.
Satriani wasn't a perfect fit for Purple but he did a good job especially considering the time frame he had to jump in.
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Anya is brilliant, like the title track and Twist In The Tail too...
But yeah the live preformances weren't very good at all...Ritchie would have rather been counting cesspools in a medieval town that played with the band...he had no interest and no spark left in him anymore at that point.
Satriani wasn't a perfect fit for Purple but he did a good job especially considering the time frame he had to jump in.
... which brings us to Mr. Morse. But that is for another section of the forum. :smug:
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Having had a quick check of the tunes on TBRO again, and it's basically the three i mentioned above that still sits well with me now. Amazing how nostalgia can fool your taste in music...
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Having had a quick check of the tunes on TBRO again, and it's basically the three i mentioned above that still sits well with me now. Amazing how nostalgia can fool your taste in music...
Nostalgia can get me sometimes when I reach for an album I used to dislike, but forgot the reasons for disliking... it's always a nasty bump when I rediscover why I hated it.
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I was at the gig in Birmingham, which remains the worst gig I have ever been to. Basically they played as a 4 piece band. If Gillan was on stage, Blackmore walked off, while if Blackmore was playing Gillan walked off. On three separate occasions Blackmore's amps were switched off. He was left strumming on stage with no sound at all. He ended up playing most of the set sitting on a chair behind the amps. We had a restricted view ticket at the side of the stage, so at least we saw him. He returned to the stage front to play Smoke On The Water, but his guitar amps were switched off yet again. He just shrugged his shoulders, walked off and never came back.
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I was at the gig in Birmingham, which remains the worst gig I have ever been to. Basically they played as a 4 piece band. If Gillan was on stage, Blackmore walked off, while if Blackmore was playing Gillan walked off. On three separate occasions Blackmore's amps were switched off. He was left strumming on stage with no sound at all. He ended up playing most of the set sitting on a chair behind the amps. We had a restricted view ticket at the side of the stage, so at least we saw him. He returned to the stage front to play Smoke On The Water, but his guitar amps were switched off yet again. He just shrugged his shoulders, walked off and never came back.
Nice to meet you here, Bomber. :D
As a Sabbath fan and someone who likes some of DP's music as well, it has always been interesting for me to see how different the conflict culture works in DP vs BS.
I mean, the principles of Sabbath's conflict culture basically seem to be:
- Never openly express your needs or concerns towards your fellow band members, no matter what. Leave all the important parts of communication to management or to the media, especially if you're having any trouble with your fellow band members.
- Whenever it is impossible to just go on, just fire somebody (if you're Tony Iommi) or leave (if you're anyone else).
- If you're Tony Iommi, and firing the other guy is is not so easy, e.g. because you are on tour, bring a replacement musician in and rehearse with him behind the other guy's back until he's ready. Then fire the guy you wanted to fire.
- After that, invent some story for the media.
With Deep Purple, I am less sure how their conflict culture works, especially the behind the scenes parts, but here's a try, and hopefully you DP fans can correct and elaborate:
- If you are Ritchie Blackmore or Ian Gillan, just fight each other any time and any place, and make a big show about it, until someone gets seriously hurt or the management or company start panicking. When that happens, either walk out as publically as possible and with as big a scene as possible, or somehow make the other guy walk out.
- If you are some other band member, just keep playing.
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Many thanks for the welcome.
Conflict:
Black Sabbath: Do what $haron says or you're out. Whether it's a 4% unsignable contract for Bill, handing over the Black Sabbath name for Tony, or handing over writing credits on '13' for Geezer, it amounts to the same thing.
Deep Purple: Do what Gillian's ego says or you're out. That seems to have been the rule for the last 25 years. It has kept the peace.
I enjoyed the Rainbow concerts with Ronnie Romero and would far rather listen to ''Blackmore's Purple'' than Deep Purple these days. I'm hoping for some new material from them.
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When Blackmore wanted a lineup change, he started work on it behind the scenes before the guys getting cut knew anything about it. Evans and Simper were made redundant one day and Gillan/Glover were on stage the next. As Blackmore contemplated leaving DP Mk3, he was rehearsing with Elf while on tour with DP. He even had ideas on who should replace him.
When Gillan wanted a lineup change, he just walked out on his own. Did that with DP, his own band, and Black Sabbath.
The first Mk2 Reunion breakup was Blackmore's planning, and he had Joe Lynn Turner waiting in the wings to pick up the work. The second Mk2 Reunion breakup was more a push from Gillan and that's why Blackmore wound up storming off, because he couldn't successfully push back.
As for Blackmore touring with Romero...
:opinion:
I've been unimpressed with their work, even though I agree that Romero's got a great talent. It just seems like the band's vibe isn't coming together.
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Many thanks for the welcome.
Conflict:
Black Sabbath: Do what $haron says or you're out. Whether it's a 4% unsignable contract for Bill, handing over the Black Sabbath name for Tony, or handing over writing credits on '13' for Geezer, it amounts to the same thing.
Deep Purple: Do what Gillian's ego says or you're out. That seems to have been the rule for the last 25 years. It has kept the peace.
I enjoyed the Rainbow concerts with Ronnie Romero and would far rather listen to ''Blackmore's Purple'' than Deep Purple these days. I'm hoping for some new material from them.
I don't know about Purple, but I think you overestimate Sharon Osbourne's power. She is Ozzy's manager, not Sabbath's. There is no way she could simply dictate everything to the band. E.g. even if the contract that was offered to Bill was her idea, Ozzy and the other bandmembers or their managements would have to have approved of it. So if Sharon is to be held responsible, the others are too. Apart from that, the "unsignable contract" story is Bill's story. The other band members have told different stories. Given Bill's record of health problems (including the most recent ones), it is obvious "health problems" version does have some merit:
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ozzy-osbourne-refuses-to-apologize-to-bill-ward-physically-you-knew-you-were-fked/
To be sure, this does not mean that Bill is simply lying and the others are simply speaking the truth. I guess the truth is somewhere in between. Anyway, I do believe that the "Sharon is responsible for all shit that happens with Sabbath" thing is a myth. See the nice conversation going in here:
https://www.komunumo.net/forumo/black-sabbath-general/wendy-dio-sharon-osbourne-and-yoko-ono-discuss/
And I think we should take the guys who are Black Sabbath more seriously. They are grown-up people, they take decisions, and they can be held responsible for them. Quite obviously, the four original members, who keep claiming they are the best friends in the world etc., have rarely openly addressed their concerns and needs face-to-face. Reportedly Bill and the others have not even talked since the failed reunion. WTF? How can such issues be expected to be solved without, well, talking to each other (as opposed to talking ABOUT each other on the media)? Honestly, those guys should really work on their communicational habits and skills.
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I was at the gig in Birmingham, which remains the worst gig I have ever been to. Basically they played as a 4 piece band. If Gillan was on stage, Blackmore walked off, while if Blackmore was playing Gillan walked off. On three separate occasions Blackmore's amps were switched off. He was left strumming on stage with no sound at all. He ended up playing most of the set sitting on a chair behind the amps. We had a restricted view ticket at the side of the stage, so at least we saw him. He returned to the stage front to play Smoke On The Water, but his guitar amps were switched off yet again. He just shrugged his shoulders, walked off and never came back.
Welcome on board! Thanks for the insight on the concert....yeah things were really bad in the band at the time. Ritchie was being Ritchie with a capital dick...and it really made things difficult for everyone...tensions were really high...and the break up was the best thing that ever could have happened. Ritchie was totally fed up with rock anyways and wanted to go to a different direction and he got the chance to do that with Blackmore's Night and Deep Purple got the mojo back big time with Steve and actually became a band again instead of an altar of egos.
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As a new member here it's nice to see a few familiar faces. As a fan of Deep Purple since watching them do Black Night on Top Of The Pops I was, like many other fans, very excited when I heard they were about to reform with the MKII line up. The first album from the reunion was great but I was a little disappointed that they only did one show on home turf during this tour. I was at Knebworth and saw an amazing show.
By the next tour the cracks were already starting to show. The new album was not as good as the last for sure. I saw them at Birmingham and you could tell that Blackmore looked very uninterested at this point and his soloing had become very boring at times.
How on earth the rest of the band allowed Blackmore to replace Gillan with JLT Is beyond me. JLT is a great singer but for Deep Purple he was completely wrong. This was a massive mistake, proven by the fact that Blackmore had to accept Gillan back as singer.
When Blackmore left everyone thought this would be the end. He was and still is an amazing guitar player. How wrong, it was a new beginning. With Joe Satriani and then Steve Morse things just got better. The thing with these line ups I liked the most was all the songs they played that had never been played before or had not been played for many years.
Unfortunately, for me, the band over a number of years now has just become too predictable again. Ever tour they do now is just a few new numbers with the same old oldies in the set as last time.
The new album I thought was the best thing they have done in many a year but I just can't get enthusiastic enough to see them live now. As soon as I saw that set list for the tour I just thought, how predictable.
Been a Purple fan now for 48 years. I still play the music regular, I still love it, I still think Blackmore is one of the greatest guitar players ever but, I think they have had their day now. Gillan can hardly sing now, time to call it a day while they are still regarded as great.
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As a new member here it's nice to see a few familiar faces. As a fan of Deep Purple since watching them do Black Night on Top Of The Pops I was, like many other fans, very excited when I heard they were about to reform with the MKII line up. The first album from the reunion was great but I was a little disappointed that they only did one show on home turf during this tour. I was at Knebworth and saw an amazing show.
By the next tour the cracks were already starting to show. The new album was not as good as the last for sure. I saw them at Birmingham and you could tell that Blackmore looked very uninterested at this point and his soloing had become very boring at times.
How on earth the rest of the band allowed Blackmore to replace Gillan with JLT Is beyond me. JLT is a great singer but for Deep Purple he was completely wrong. This was a massive mistake, proven by the fact that Blackmore had to accept Gillan back as singer.
When Blackmore left everyone thought this would be the end. He was and still is an amazing guitar player. How wrong, it was a new beginning. With Joe Satriani and then Steve Morse things just got better. The thing with these line ups I liked the most was all the songs they played that had never been played before or had not been played for many years.
Unfortunately, for me, the band over a number of years now has just become too predictable again. Ever tour they do now is just a few new numbers with the same old oldies in the set as last time.
The new album I thought was the best thing they have done in many a year but I just can't get enthusiastic enough to see them live now. As soon as I saw that set list for the tour I just thought, how predictable.
Been a Purple fan now for 48 years. I still play the music regular, I still love it, I still think Blackmore is one of the greatest guitar players ever but, I think they have had their day now. Gillan can hardly sing now, time to call it a day while they are still regarded as great.
Welcome! :-) I am happy to meet you here. Thanks for telling. The predictability issue was one of the decisive factors for me to not attend any of the recent Sabbath tours. Sad to hear it became similar with Purple.
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Part of the predictability is the baggage a band has to carry in the form of its classic hits. Fans expect those as part of a standard show.
When I was a teacher, I treated my profession like a performing art. I had some standard stuff, but I wanted to mix it up over the years, with some things in common with many classes, but not all of them. As the years wore on, I would start to get requests for stuff I'd done with other classes that I hadn't done with the current crew. I started to understand the gramps with amps better, how they have to keep a large percentage in permanent rotation in their setlists. They simply don't have the freedom they once had when they were starting out.
Then there's the age factor... how much of the predictability is due to band members having slipping memories? Gillan's already infamous for botching lyrics - I saw him open "Woman from Tokyo" with the *second* verse and then realize his error and laugh it off. That was back in 2001.
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It's too bad that that so many of our favourites are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. So many will take a bathroom break when they slide in a new song, yet they disappoint their core audience, if they don't change it up enough. At least with Purple, they probably still very much enjoy what they do, they knew that a new album wasn't going to be a big seller, but they probably figured, this is what we do! A lot of other bands out there are probably still going on because they don't want to ask, "you want fries with that?".
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Welcome on board Nutzrocker!
I do agree with what you are saying for the most part but for the current tour setlist...well yes they could dust off some rarely played material, especially from Purpendicular but if they were to do that in expense of songs like Lazy, Black Night, Strange Kind Of Woman people would go nuts. And it's not like they are in their 50s anymore so they can't really do over 2 hours sets every night either...
They did dust off two tracks again for this tour though...Bloodsucker and Knocking At Your Backdoor. So they do still do that too. I would love to hear Anyone's Daughter again too...
And Axefiend! Good to see you here bud!
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One thing to their credit, DP actually made an at least better-than-average album that has tunes that work on stage for this latest run.
HOBL, though... I want to start another thread on that platter of paradox...
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Isn't it time for Gillan to let Coverdale and Hughes come onstage to do a handful of numbers? It would be good if they start sharing their common heritage...
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Isn't it time for Gillan to let Coverdale and Hughes come onstage to do a handful of numbers? It would be good if they start sharing their common heritage...
The Gillan fan in me wants to say:
:buhbye:
But the DP fan in me says, yeah, it's about time. If Aria can do it, so can DP, even if only for a few nights at the O2 in London.
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Well Coverdale did that whole Purple tour thing with Whitesnake a while back it was pretty horrible. Frankly I would be okay with him never doing a Purple song as long as he lives.
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Well Coverdale did that whole Purple tour thing with Whitesnake a while back it was pretty horrible. Frankly I would be okay with him never doing a Purple song as long as he lives.
Him and Hughes doing Burn again? Could be cool...
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Him and Hughes doing Burn again? Could be cool...
Nah...Granted Hughes has got more of his "voice" still left but that's not really saying much. ;D
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Him and Hughes doing Burn again? Could be cool...
Nah...Granted Hughes has got more of his "voice" still left but that's not really saying much. ;D
Over in the DP thread, I posted a vid of Coverdale and Hughes doing "This Time Around" together recently. It really was an amazing performance in my view.
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At least the last time I watched some relatively recent live footage of each of those 3 guys, Hughes' voice live on stage was a Billion times better than the other two's. I mean, it was really good, and the other too sounded really bad. Could be a little embarassing for them... Anyway, I will have to check out some newer stuff.
But wouldn't that not be too many egos on the same stage anyway?
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Unfortunately, David Coverdals voice has gone the same way as Ian Gillans. The inevitable effects of age have affected both of them. Neither of them can get anywhere near the heights they used to be able to reach. Not a criticism, just a fact of life. We are all getting older. Glenn Hughes has a great voice and does seem to have weathered the effects of getting older much better than the other two. I just wish he could cut all the screaming and wailing.
There was talk of some shows with all the ex members playing a part some years ago. Even Blackmore said he would do it. With the exception of Tommy Bolin, all ex members could have potentially taken part. I think it would have been a great project at this time but unfortunately, the time passed.
Since then Jon Lord has sadly passed away. The singers have all lost a little more of their voices and if Ritchie's last Rainbow project is anything to go by, he has obviously lost a lot himself. I thought the latest Rainbow was very lightweight.
This is coming from a lifelong Purple fan, I still love them but you have to face facts, they are all getting older. As much as I would have loved to see a show with all the available ex members, I think the time for this kind of thing has sadly passed.
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Exactly. The seasons change... and it's so not 1972 any more.
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Reportedly Bill and the others have not even talked since the failed reunion. WTF? How can such issues be expected to be solved without, well, talking to each other (as opposed to talking ABOUT each other on the media)? Honestly, those guys should really work on their communicational habits and skills.
Tony, Bill, and Geezer appeared together in 2015 to accept an honour at the Ivor Novello awards. But I'm not sure if they discussed anything in relation to Bill and the band.
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Reportedly Bill and the others have not even talked since the failed reunion. WTF? How can such issues be expected to be solved without, well, talking to each other (as opposed to talking ABOUT each other on the media)? Honestly, those guys should really work on their communicational habits and skills.
Tony, Bill, and Geezer appeared together in 2015 to accept an honour at the Ivor Novello awards. But I'm not sure if they discussed anything in relation to Bill and the band.
Right, I forgot about that. Given how things developed since then, and given what has been said since then, my guess is they didn't discuss ANYTHING. They probably assured each other how great it is to see each other, they did their thing on that awards ceremony and got back home and just didn't talk a word about their conflict. Pathetic.
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Reportedly Bill and the others have not even talked since the failed reunion. WTF? How can such issues be expected to be solved without, well, talking to each other (as opposed to talking ABOUT each other on the media)? Honestly, those guys should really work on their communicational habits and skills.
Tony, Bill, and Geezer appeared together in 2015 to accept an honour at the Ivor Novello awards. But I'm not sure if they discussed anything in relation to Bill and the band.
Right, I forgot about that. Given how things developed since then, and given what has been said since then, my guess is they didn't discuss ANYTHING. They probably assured each other how great it is to see each other, they did their thing on that awards ceremony and got back home and just didn't talk a word about their conflict. Pathetic.
There might have been a degree of not wanting to make each other uncomfortable by discussing it. But you know these guys, these matters are rarely addressed in the open. Moves are instead made in silence.