The Community
ROCK AND ROLL! => Black Sabbath => Solo Projects => Topic started by: Zzzptm on February 16, 2022, 09:15:50 AM
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Several of us are wanting to do this - just one question, are we ready for it? Specifically to KDC and Charger who I know had been awaiting delivery on the vinyl. We good to start this thing or do we want to come back to it in a few days?
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I've got the MP3, just waiting for the CD (next Mionday).
Tony posted on FB that the vinyl won't be available until later this year as the record company want to realease it as a double album... so Tony has to record a few more tracks! Thorns is only about 48 minutes long, I have vinyl longer than that on a single disk! In fact I have Hysteria by Def Leppard which is a single disk and is 62:30 minutes!
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Ah, but cramming all that stuff on on disc means possibly losing a good deal of sound quality. Spreading it out makes the sound happy.
And if it's a double album, do the CD/MP3 purchasers get an update when new tracks come out???
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I hadn't noticed that thing about the vinyl...would be cool to have a vinyl too. And I wouldn't mind extra tracks. :smug:
With the olympics and all the curling I don't have much time to listen to the album...in fact I've only been able to go through it once now....just don't have the time...
So maybe push this back for a week or so?
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My bad it wasn't TMs FB page I saw it on, it was Joe's Fan page, although he was quoting Tony at the time.
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Waiting a week works for me... those of us with MP3s can use those, those of us with CDs may elect that format. :)
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Week has come and gone!
AS THE WORLD BURNS
The way Tony sings "burns"... so very Dio in how he forms that word, love it. This album could almost be an elegy for Ronnie James Dio not only because of how Martin borrows from Dio, but in how he repays those borrowings with interest. This is not a hollow mimicry, but a solid, strong artistic effort in and of itself with the nod to Dio not being necessary, but also not distracting. It's a complimentary decoration that adds to the overall enjoyment of the piece.
Instrumentally, the crew backing Tony Martin has paid their dues and done their homework. We've got a great band here. I'm excited to listen to them and not rolling my eyes at yet another metal band. Vocally, this is the Tony Martin I remember from the late 80s when I first heard Eternal Idol. While there were albums that got close to EI, none with Sabbath got back to that level, at least for me. This opening track got me to sit up and take notice that maybe the proper follow-up to the potential hinted at in EI wasn't with other Sabbath albums, but with Tony Martin solo.
This song drew me in, but it left me with a question: will the rest of the album hold up? After each song, I had to keep asking the question, as Martin has produced hit/miss affairs before. No matter what, though, this song for me is a huge hit!
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AS THE WORLD BURNS
This is THE heaviest track on the album and probably one of the heaviest tracks Tony Martin has ever done...and it's damn near perfect and a fantastic album opener.
Tony's vocals are nothing short of suberb on this one and Scott McClellan's guitar work is top notch as well. His riffing style is very different from any other guitarist that Tony has ever worked with but it works perfectly. I've been facebook buddies with Scott for years and I've followed his work way before he got the job with Tony and I was super happy for him and he surely got the job with his merrits.
The lyrics are also some of Tony's finest...telling a story from the perspective of the Devil and not being overly cheesy about it either, instead it has a nice twist to it.
This might very well be my favourite tune on the album but there is some stiff competition for it let me tell ya.
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I will join in but may have to catch up, I've been busy listening to other stuff and haven't played Thorns for a month!
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Catch up you must. We shall wait. :)
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I will join in but may have to catch up, I've been busy listening to other stuff and haven't played Thorns for a month!
Do you have a timetable on when you'd be able to listen to that first track? :lol:
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I'll try and get to it by this evening...
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I'll try and get to it by this evening...
:yes:
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As the World Burns
A great opening track for the album. As has been said it is the heaviest song he's been involved with. As it's the song I'm most familiar with I don't want to yet suggest it is the best on the album, but I think it will be right up there in the final analysis. Tony's vocals haven't lost anything over the years, which I'm a little surprised about given some reports of his live shows from a few years back.
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BLACK WIDOW ANGEL
Heavy tune for sure, slower than the opening. Just noticed the 3/4 beat to the verses that becomes 4/4 in the chorus, cool! Bass solo cooks along in 4/4 or something divisible by 2... could be 16/16 for all I know. :D
On its own, I think it holds up all right. Not as good as the first track, but I still like it, especially the bass solo part. Martin's delivery is more his own style here, which goes to show his versatility. And how old is he? My gosh, I should sound so good at that age. He's taken some very effective steps at preserving his vocal instrument.
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Black Widow Angel
On first hearing I didn't think much of it, but it has grown on me a little over subsequent listens, but I still think it might be one of the weaker tracks on the album, we shall see! I think the vocal melody feels a little forced.
Yes, the bass solo is kinda cool!
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Black Widow Angel continues with the heavier stronger side of the album.
The riff is excellent and there's quite a bit going on with the song, it's not just you're average heavy rocker tune.
Lyrically it is very strong as well and Tony's vocals are again top notch....but I do agree that the vocal melody might not be among his finest.
Still a fantastic track.
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BOOK OF SHADOWS
Spooky intro, could take us into cheesy if it goes too long. :)
Thankfully, Tony comes in and adds dimension to the track. The choir then blends in with the instruments and acts as a percussion instrument in punctuating beats during the verses, then shifts into a string section for the bridges. I like that versatility of the choir, it works to support the song throughout. Instrumentally, the story here is letting the keyboards shine, Tony Carey-style. It's a solid track even if it doesn't jump up and grab me as a standalone tune.
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I must have missed the above post, I'll post my thoughts on it tomorrow (I'm a little drunk at the moment!)
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I must have missed the above post, I'll post my thoughts on it tomorrow (I'm a little drunk at the moment!)
Better than being a big drunk!
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Oh darn! I seemed to also have forgotten about this...so lets carry on then!
Book Of Shadows
This was supposed to be the title track of the album but because Zakk Wylde already had an album called Book Of Shadows out and Iron Maiden put out Book Of Souls Tony opted to change the title to Thorns.
There is a certain Epic feel to the track fitting for a title track. The quiet choir intro leading into the song is rather brilliant. This isn't a fast song or a really heavy one but it does have a lot of depth and Tony's vocal melody is nothing short of suberb.
But not all is great though....as it needs more guitar...there is no real strong riff on the song and the guitar almost plays the part of a background instrument to the more orchestral sound.
The drums are great though and this certainly is a complex tune.
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Agree, more guitar could have made this stronger.
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Book of Shadows
I was aware that the this was to have been the title track, but I hadn't heard the detailed reason for the change.
I like this one, it's atmopheric, gothic even! Musically restrained, I too had noticed the limited use of guitar, but I think that works in the songs favour, and the choral elements work well.
I'm not convinced the girl voices at the end help though!
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CRYING WOLF
This one is one of those mellower burners, very much something from Dio's playbook. The Latin rhythm and acoustic guitar give the song a unique feel with some deep-stirring moods. Tony's voice is the star on this track.
The guitar solo is a nod to Rainbow's mid-70s heyday with what sounds very much like a Fender with picked notes, like Blackmore used to do. Seriously, if this was snuck in on Rainbow Rising just after "Starstruck", it would fit right in. Great track, gave me goosebumps when it started.
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CRYING WOLF
The first little dip in quality of songs. This is starts off with a soft acoustic guitar and leads into Tony's very good soft vocal melody.
But all in all this song just lacks punch. It's also bit overly simplistic musically during the verses...there's a nice little drum bit in the middle which gives a small promise that the song would pick up but it actually doesn't. However the guitar solo elevates the song. It is short but oh so sweet. There is a hint of Blackmore in there for sure...even more so evident on the outro solo.
Not quite up to par with the first 3 but it is still a good song...just could have been better.
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CRYING WOLF (4:26)
Not going to argue with Charger, it's not bad but it is far from the best song on the album. Perhaps it's not really my style of song, never been a fan of the latin rhythms!
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Interesting how we're hearing different things so far, but still hold that the album as a whole so far is also something we all enjoy. I like how Martin's delivery on the album is diverse enough to scratch more than one itch.
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DAMNED BY YOU
Metal opening, for sure.
Metal guitar - check
Metal bass - check
Metal drums - check
Violin player - hold on, what's that??? :D
Seriously, that violin is a great touch. It's not cheesy or out of place, but flows in nice with the rest of the track. The guitar solo is sweet and the drumming on the bridge part is tasty. This song could *easily* have become a sad, soppy ballad or a 13-minute grind of an epic, but Martin keeps it tight and delivers a neat package of violin-flavoured metal. I love it.
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DAMNED BY YOU (4:06)
A good heavy song, it might be close to my favourite off the album. It's a catchy song, it also has possibly the best solo too. The violin actually adds to the overall feel, probably could do with a little more upfront fiddle.
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DAMNED BY YOU
A great rocker with a very cool nice added Violin parts from Tony.
There's a strong The Cage vibe in this song both in the guitar and the vocal melody as well as the lyrics.
Nothing bad to say about this song. Most certainly among the best tracks on the album!
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NO SHAME AT ALL
Opens with a strong metal groove. Martin's vocal delivery is less Dio and more his original style, which works great with the groove.
Damn but this fires on all cylinders! Totally works as a stoner rock tune.
No solos at all would also have been a possible title. :smug: Even so, I like this singalong rocker.
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NO SHAME AT ALL (4:47)
This ia an okay song, I quite like it, but not challenging for the top spot. The lyrics are quite clever coming back to the ame scene "in the mall" from different angles! The quick descending repetition of the title as a chorus reminds me of another song (but I can't think which!).
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NO SHAME AT ALL
The intro riff is fantastic Tony's vocal melody again has something very The Cage-like in it which is cool.
The chorus is catchy and Tony pushes his vocals to the limit without going over it though. I could however do without the repetetive middle part and the outro.
Another very good rocker.
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NOWHERE TO FLY
Quiet start after the big rock before it. Will it turn into a louder, mid-tempo ballad? Let's watch and find out!
Yep. That was a bit predictable... but it's not a half-bad song for it, as the ballad isn't being whiny or sappy.
Bridge section is very slow with a minimalist guitar part.
Second song with no solo, so it's all on Martin's voice and lyrics to shine, and I think they do. As a slow song, it works. It's not one that I want to skip, not at all.
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NOWHERE TO FLY (4:47)
It's a run-of-the-mill doomy song, not bad, but has some good points to it. Martin's vocals are pretty good, and the lyrics are interesting (guy dies, devil takes his wings, and he can't fly back to his gal who has moved on anyway...)
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NOWHERE TO FLY
There's a nice doomy feel to this song indeed even though the guitar isn't super heavy. Tony's vocal melody is a nice mixture of soft and heavy.
Lyrically this is great and bit different.
I wouldn't go out and categorize this as a ballad more like a doomy emotional tune...kind of like Samarithan from Candlemass. The near 5 minutes actually flies by (no pun intented) with this song mainly because of that great middle section.
Another great song on this great album!
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I agree, Charger, that this song went by much more quickly than the track time would have me think. I've heard some songs that are timed a minute shorter, but which seem like hours. :D
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PASSION KILLER
Another stellar intro riff. Has a bit of Zakk Wylde in it...not just the little use of pinch harmonics but the overall feel. Tony delivers yet another stellar vocal preformance especially on the chorus.
And the drums deserve a special mentioning on this one..they are heavy and on the money.
This is also a surprisingly complex tune with a lot of small tempo changes and melodies. But this is a drum track for sure...
Another one for the kick ass section...which is getting crowded as far as this album is concerned...
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PASSION KILLER
Great rocker with a delightfully ironic lyric. Makes 5 mintues seem like 2, it's so much fun to listen to. And yes, Mr. Martin seems incapable of producing crap on this album thus far. I'll take it!
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PASSION KILLER (4:49)
Musically wonderful, vocally solid, another heavy song, it reminds me of Soundgarden in places and the "Passion Killer, Passion Killer, Killer" reminds me of Halford, none of which is a crticism. The funeral melody just after the first chorus is clever in the context of the lyrics.
... and it flies by for a song that is nearly 5 minutes!
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RUN LIKE THE DEVIL
A great fast heavy rocker. The riff has a slight Neon Knights feel to it. But it's not Tony trying to do Sabbath...it's very much his own tune with his own style.
Some great vocals on this one...he uses pretty much his entire scale here which is amazing. Vocally this might very well be the best track on the album. Such a great preformance.
The guitar solo is also something worth mentioning. It's got a very interesting quirky tone to it...I like it a lot! Might be the favourite solo on the album.
A stellar track this one.
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RUN LIKE THE DEVIL
Oh hell yes!
:priest:
Very much a classic 80s metal style of tune, fresh and clean. This has to be one of the top tracks of the album so far... but what's next? :smug:
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RUN LIKE THE DEVIL (3:56)
A very 80s sound and made using the Neon Knights blue-print.
Another really heavy song, some very good vocals, maybe a the song is a little "by the numbers" but it doesn't lose anything because of that, a pretty good song.
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THIS IS YOUR DAMNATION
The odd ball track of the album. Country western meets rock 'n roll meets doomy funkyness meets Tony Martin.
This is probably one of the strangest songs Tony has ever done and hands down one of the best ones too. This is proof that sometimes oddness works wonders. What an absolutely amazing track. The vocal melody is absolutely suberb and the guitar work is stellar.
I guess the closest thing to this song what comes to mind is Anyone's Daughter from Deep Purple...Tony's vocalization even reminds me of Ian's...I remember when I commented on that on Facebook Tony replied that it was the first time anyone ever compared him to Ian Gillan! Took it as a compliment though...as it was intented obviously.
What an amazing song this one...I might even go and say it's my favourite on the album. Without a doubt one of those songs you either love or you don't...but I do...oh god I do.
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THIS IS YOUR DAMNATION (3:09)
Not sure I can be as effusive as Charger about this one, but I do quite like it. It's quirky and completely unlike anything he's done before (that I know of anyway).
I think Anyone's Daughter is about as close that I can think to compare it to.
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THIS IS YOUR DAMNATION
My favorite track on the album. Yes, it's got that laid-back Gillan-esque delivery in the spoken parts, but the chorus is pure Dio-flavored magic. It's a tightly-crafted song, carved out of a single block of mahogany or something like that. Not a metal tune, but that makes as no difference in my rankings. :D
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THORNS
Then we got the final track which just happens to be the title track of the album.
The soft guitar intro sets the tone for the song which is quite melancholic and deals with a very heavy topic as well. Tony has managed to incorporate a lot of emotion into the song and he asked if his long time facebook friend (who shares the same birthday as Tony!) Pamela Moore would like to do some vocals for the song as he felt there were parts that could only be sung by a woman...and she agreed and she does an amazing job here again...and her voice is a perfect match for Tony.
This is one of the best tracks on the album for sure and honestly this could have been a longer track as well...as it is it seems to end too early...It could have used a long solo section in the middle I think...but that's pretty much the only gripe I have with this song...beautiful piece and a great way to end a great album.
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One of the best closers, ever. This really seals the whole album as a top-rate product in addition to standing on its own two feet as a powerful track.
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THORNS (5:16)
The album closer is another great song (agreed, it could easily have been longer). Great vocals from both parties (I might have given Pamela a few more lines), a heart breaking story and musically top notch.
I fine way to finish a fine album.
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As usual I'm going to rank the songs. All the songs have a lot of merit and there's going to be a lot of joint positions! The lowest songs on this list are still remakably good!
1= Book of Shadows
1= Damned By You
3= As The World Burns
3= Thorns
5= No Shame At All
5= Nowhere to Fly
5= Passion Killer
5= Run Like the Devil
5= This Is Your Damnation
10= Black Widow Angel
10= Crying Wolf
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1. This Is Your Damnation
2. Run Like the Devil
3. Book of Shadows
4. Passion Killer
5. No Shame at All
I just can't rank the others, it's getting to be a muddle of excellence. :smug:
For sure, though, if you said I only had one song from that album, I'd want to be sure it's This Is Your Damnation.
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This is so damn good of an album it is really hard to put the songs into an order...
11. Crying Wolf
10. No Shame At All
9. Book Of Shadows
8. Nowhere To Fly
7. Damned By You
6. Passion Killer
5. Thorns
4. Run Like The Devil
3. Black Widow Angel
2. As The World Burns
1. This Is Your Damnation
That was hard...but honestly the differences between numbers 10 and 1 are minimal at best...The only clearly below the others track is Crying Wolf the rest are all just various levels of greatness!
Truly a suberb album all in all and I have to say I'd be very surprised if this wouldn't be the #1 album of the year.
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I agree, this is very strong stuff from Tony Martin, well done!